What do you do when your child has no school to go to in September?? I really need some help please.

[FluffySaysTheDailyMailsShite]

It's fluffy bunny.
I have written some threads about ds in the past, he's waiting to be assessed for aspergers and has previously had real problems at the schools he's been at because he comes across as rude, he can't read social situations very well, he panics and is silly. He's moved school's a few times because of this, the relationship between him and the head of one school was so bad (because the head was a fruit cake and ds questioned why he was only teaching them about the catholic church and no others, the head's solution was for me to pack ds off to a "strict, religious boarding school with a firm housemaster" [hmm). The school he attends currently has a variety of children, the staff are nice (apart from the head) but he's being badly bullied. I was resorting to bringing him home at lunch time to keep him safe, I work so can't always do this. Academically he's very bright and was extremely bored. The work he was given was no where near the right level for him.
He sat an entrance exam for a new school, it's private, harder work, aspergers experience etc but we recieved the letter this morning saying he was 'unsuccessful', despite the head telling me that he did really well on the entrance exam, it doesn't say why on the letter, they are aware that ds is being assessed for aspergers and has moved about as he's not had a good time at school.

We are really stuck now and I really don't know what to do. My options are
A) find him another school - difficult as it's the school holidays
B) send him back to his current school where he's being bullied, head teacher thinks he believes everyone is beneith him, work is way too easy, homework hardly ever marked, child being moved into his class in September who has severe behavioural problems
C) return him to his last school which wasn't too bad, I just couldn't pay the fees how they wanted them to be paid, poor manners in the boys though
D) home educate him, meaning I'd have him 24 hours a day, I'm a single mum, I'd have to leave work.

I really need some words of wisdom.

He was really bad. I'd bring him home and he'd sit on the sofa and really sob, it was terrible. He was told off alot. I spoke to the trainee TA who had been working in the class (not the wisest of moves), she said all the teacher did was shout.
Ds had a problem with the nursery he was at before he started school. I reported them to social services when he told me what had been happening, it started off with him being shouted at and did get to a point where he was hurt by a member of staff so he really doesn't react well to people shouting at him. This is part of the reason he's seeing a therapist. I don't know whether it's the abuse he suffered or whether it's mild asergers. He really needs a break and to be somewhere that's caring as well as academic. The prospective school looked so promising, there were boys sitting outside reading, he can't do this without children being nasty to him. I don't know whether I'm being too overprotective wanting to move him about so much, I failed him when he was small and I don't want to do this again. Things get so bad for him I feel like I have no choice but to look for somewhere else. I'm really not helping, which is why he has a therapist. I'm waffling now, sorry.

Would it help tp see the therapist together sometimes, adn talk about what has happened in the past?

The current senco has been really proactive and set things in motion for you - if you move, you may lose this momentum. Can you involve her with your discussions? Is she approachable? Will she be available before the start of term?

I can't leave him there knowing that he's being physically and verbally bullied. Ds was only 4 when he was harmed and can't remember now. He still flinches when he's shouted at. I'm sitting downstairs when they are talking, he's just letting ds get to know him as he needs ds to trust him. It's going to take a long time. He is a really lovely boy, he's happy, bright, caring and helpful. He just can't talk to people he doesn't know well and he panics when he's in a group and it's noisey.

Fluffy - I've said this before so apologies for repeating myself - I understand you feel you're doing the best for your son - that's what we all want after all. However, I can't see that moving him around so much could possibly be in his best interests.

It's great that he's seeing a therapist, but a therapist can't give him a diagnosis, if there is one to be made. You really need to press for the paediatrician's appointment to be brought forward as a matter of urgency. Or maybe ask your mother to help you with paying for a private assessment rather than more fees at the moment - this could get the ball rolling with regard to getting your ds appropriate support.

You don't know if it's asperger's or something else, and certainly no-one on MN can possibly tell you what's going on with your son, although I've seen several of your posts which have run alarm bells, because a lot of your ds' behaviour sounds very similar to my boys.

You can't jump to conclusions about why the prospective school rejected him this time - until you've spoken to them you don't know if it was financial worries, a referral from his current school, or any of his old schools, or just that they felt they couldn't meet his needs at the moment. My ds is at a brilliant independent which suits him down to the ground BUT he has a statement which brings with it the highest level of funding he can have and still be in mainstream school. I'm pretty sure that without that extra funding the school wouldn't have been prepared to take him on. I suspect too that the number of school moves would have raised questions and I'm sure that yet another move back to his old private school would not do him any favours if it came to applying to the new school again.

You're asking for advice, but honestly no-one here can give you any meaningful advice - that needs to come from people who know your ds and your situation. I think you need to work with the professionals who are currently involved - your current LEA, the SENCO and head - I know you haven't been impressed by them so far, but get on their case and make them work for your son. You keep saying the work is too easy, insist on differentiated work, insist on them following their anti-bullying policy. But also try not to project your anxiety onto your son, as that won't help him either

I hope you have a good weekend and manage to relax a bit about all this

I see what you are saying mimsum but I'm trying to ensure that he is not moved about as I too do not believe that this is in his best interests.
The therapist is a qualified ex-social worker who specialises in helping children who have been abused or harmed, as well as ones with developmental delays (amongst other things), he also works with families to make sure that parental anxiety is not reflected on the children (IYSWIM). He can give an educated idea of whether ds's problems are 'real' for want of a better word. He has already said that he believes ds behaves in a normal way for a very bright child. If he is found to have aspergers then the traits he has are minimal, everyone has one or two in them if we look close enough. I remember my brother going through a phase of eating nothing that had no ketchup on it, he went through fad's of teenage mutant ninja turtles and batman. He doesn't have aspergers. I am wary of looking too closely and finding something that is not there. It makes no difference to me whether he has aspergers or not, he can be immature but not all the time, he communicates well with people, he's thoughtful, he thinks of others, he'll share his last sweet with his friends, he's sensitive to animals (he cried buckets when his fish died), his empathy skills are a work in progress so it would be wrong to say he had none. I'll let them assess him by all means, there are things that I don't think are the same as other boys but every child is different. The way he is now there is no way he would be statemented.

The senco has done nothing bar write the letter for the GP by the way. She has not even seen ds and she's met him three times.

Thankyou maryz. That has really helped. The school I wanted ds to move to is a junior school and a secondary school, although they are in different buildings they are on the same site next to each other and share the same facilities and events. It's a long term plan, I think it's important for him to get to know the staff as he's happier when he knows people, he will make friends that (hopefully) will move to the secondary school with him. It's a lovely environment where he can read outside if he wants without someone snatching his book and throwing it over a fence, then verbally abusing him.

he doesn't always say what he wants, it's frustrating, I do sometimes ask him what he would like to eat and it's always "I don't know".

I found this, he's more on the NLD side then the aspergers

Fluffy - I give up! (said in the nicest possible way) Does it not say something to you that most of the people on this thread are saying very similar things and I think I'm right in saying that most of us have children whose journey through school is not straightforward so we have every empathy with your situation

I will stop banging my head on a brick wall and wish you the very best with what you eventually decide - I hope your ds is happy wherever he ends up

I agree with mimsum.
You really need to take a deep breath and step back then get a reliable assessment of your son's difficulties rather than trying to use the internet to find a label. sorry if that sounds harsh but I'm trying to be realistic. I know as a parent I can find "symptoms" everywhere that fit my son perfectly but that doesn't mean he has all or any of the syndromes.

The other thing I would say is the lovely little boy you see at home may not be the same as the child the school sees. If he is ASD or NLD the strain of "holding it all together" can create a totally different child to the one you know.

I'm not sure how valuable a letter from the therapist will be as a SENCO I would be looking for a medical or psychological report.

I hope for your son's sake you can sort things out.

I really do hear what you are saying and I really appreciate your time and help. I am listening so please don't feel like you are banging your head against a wall.

I have already approached the senco at the school he's in now. The only thing she's done is write the letter for the GP which over inflates how he is. I have also spoken to his head teacher who refuses to acknowledge that there is a bullying problem at the school and without meeting ds or spending any time in the playground has blammed him for any arguments he has found himself in that have escalated into him being pushed or hit. I know he's not perfect, I know that he's going to answer back if someone calls him a nerd/geek/gay boy that sucks his mother, I did at first advise him to ignore it and walk away but to be honest, they just follow him around and carry on. I then told him to tell the teacher, he did this but was called a "grasser" and pushed about, I then advised hit to try and block them (gently)if they started to push him, which he tried, however, the other child would run to the teacher complaining that ds had hurt them (he only did this once). He does have problems with the ligaments in his legs so he's not as quick as other children, running away doesn't help as he falls over, he can't spend all lunch/play time inside as it's not good for him to do this, he can't build friendships if I'm bringing him home for lunch either. Surely school shouldn't be like this? I am not the sort of parent that is constantly in the school complaining, if I am told of a problem I will try and solve it as it's never in anyones interests, let alone my child's to leave it.

I do try to support the school. I am aware they are professionals with numerous years of experience but seeing my child twice in the case of his head teacher, or seeing him once in the case of the senco or a few times a week in the case of his class teacher doesn't really give them an accurate reflection of a child that is weary of them and would benefit (both ways) of getting to know him. How things currently stand, he has different teachers for different lessons, his class teacher is absent for 1-2 days a week so technically only see's him for an hour or so a day 3-4 days a week.
I know he needs support but I also know it really is not as bad as she has made out. I do have the contact number for one of the school governors so I'm thinking about whether to get her involved. I do need to contact the school we wanted ds to move to and get some further details.

I have thought about moving him back to his old school and this was the wrong decision, I think I panicked. It was OK but not quite right for him. I don't wish to move him again and the thought of him spending the next x amount of years there makes me a little uneasy. He does need a supportive, nurturing environment but also one that is academic. It is very easy to look for a label as you say mrz, in an ideal world it would be far easier to approach a school and say "this is what ds has, this is how it affects him" but we don't live in an ideal world. From the paediatric training I have had and from comments from his previous teachers (who I am in touch with), he does not require a statement because whatever problem he may have is not severe enough to warrant one. I know I only see one side of him and I am not there with him at school but I do listen to what his teachers say about him, they all say that he finds the social side of school difficult and he would benefit from finding a club and making friends outside school, which we have done. He is a little immature at times (he is a boy though) but he does have friends that are far worse. Every child is a work in progress, he's recieving support from an expert to help him understand why things have happened to him in the past, I know the sessions are going well for him and I have every intention of continuing with them if this is what is needed.

I think from the way you have described your son (and you know him best) it does sound as if NHS juniors would be a very good fit for him, as their educational support person is reputed to be excellent and he could be whatever he needs to be at that school without being isolated or teased from my impressions of it....he'd also be constantly challenged academically which sounds like a good thing?

So I would tend to agree that it's worth calmly and reasonably asking to negotiate? He must be up to the mark academically so it's very likely there are other factors behind their decision?

Would they let you see a copy of the other school's reference? I should think it's worth waiting out the first couple of weeks of term and then calmly asking for a meeting, going through point by point what you've explained on here and maybe as others have suggested asking if he can try out for a few weeks?

Fluffy,

Re your comment:-
"The way he is now there is no way he would be statemented".

How do you know that for certain?. Unfortunately your previous peadiatric training does not come into it and thus has no bearing, nor do comments from teachers (who often say such things anyway, its all designed to put people off from applying. I've seen and heard all this before now and no statement to my mind is showing me that he is being failed). A Statement is a valuable thing to have if a child has difficulties, regardless of whether they are educational or social. Its not just designed for educational needs. His school life would be easier if he had a Statement in place, particularly in secondary school.

Its the LEA who make that particular decision and if they say no you as the parent can appeal. You must make the statement application directly, do not let a school do it. You do not actually know this unless you yourself write to the Chief Educational Officer at your LEA requesting the Statutory Assessment. You have been badly misled and misinformed up until now.

I think both you and your son are being badly failed here by the very people who are supposed to be helping you both. This scenario will keep happening time and time again as well unless you really kick arse and go all out to get the full educational rights he deserves and needs. Your son at the very least should be seeing a developmental paed and your GP should be fast tracking him to ensure the earliest possible appointment. He needs a formal diagnosis.

You may want to look at the Special Needs forum on this website as well.

AttilaTheMeerkat it is usually in the teacher's interest to get a statement for a child who needs one - more funding for the school & more adults in the class.
When teachers say they don't think you will get a statement it is because they are aware how difficult it is to get one under the present system.

Agree that FluffySaysTheDailyMailsShite needs to get a proper assessment of her son's needs

Thankyou thirtysomething. I seem to be jumping through alot of hoops at the moment, I do hope it's worth it, I'm sure it will be though.

He wouldn't be statemented Atilla, my best friend is a senco, she knows ds really well and was there at his birth, we see her regularly and she was shocked when I mentioned to her that this is what his senco thought and she was more shocked when she read the letter for the GP. It's a private school we wanted to move him to, it's a junior school and a senior school so he would never have to leave. They have specialist learning support and access to their own educational psychologist if they think this is necessary so it seems like a good place for him. I am concerned as to what went wrong, he is an incredibly bright boy and it really did seem like the perfect place for him so I am concerned about what's gone wrong. I do wish to support both him and his school so I need to find out what the problem is so that I can address it and support ds to ensure that he recieves the support or guidance he needs to ensure that this is sorted out.

I sent this last night:
Dear Head
I wish to thankyou for taking the time to assess ds for a place at your school and for getting back to me. I would, if this is possible, like to discuss the reasons for your decision with you in the hope that I can support ds through any problems that he may have encountered which have affected this. ds has had a number of problems at his current school ranging from bullying to the lack of work he has been recieving so it is important to us as a family that we find him a school where he best fits in.
If I could possibly get some feedback from you I would be incredibly grateful. ds is a very bright boy, he's caring, good natured, helpful and considerate to people he knows in an environment where he feels secure and respected so I am looking for somewhere that can nurture these qualities. I am, however, also being aware that he does sometimes need support in a socially, although this is very minor and the support he requires with this is very minimal, he also sometimes uses adult speech and a stern tone that others find rude or precocious without it being ds intention to offend, this is a work in progress for us and he does recieve alot of support at home to help him with this.

As a parent, the last thing I want for my son is to remove him from his friends and place him in yet another school unless it is absolutely necessary and the school being the very best place for him, both academically and socially. I am looking for a permanent place for ds. I very much appreciate that he may not be ready for [name of school], or that this may not be the right place for him so your feedback will be important for us in deciding where to take things for ds from here. Should you require any information from either myself or the therapist who has been assessing ds in order to help him due to the bullying he has recieved please do not hesitate to let me know. I am looking for the right place for ds, even if it may not be [name of school] I would appreciate some suggestions.

Again, thankyou for your time.

Yours sincerely
Fluffy."

I now have to wait. I will suggest a taster day so they can see for themselves what ds is really like, he really isn't a handful. I don't get the feedback I recieve from his current teacher, children tell her that ds swears alot, this has got back to the head, however, he has firm views on swearing, I have never heard him, I do listen to him when he's in games workshop playing, he doesn't know I'm there, he's sociable, talkative and play's fair but I (nor the staff) have ever heard him swear. He does come home and ask me what certain rude words are though as we don't use such terms at home and he hears them at school. Maybe I do have 2 children, I really don't know.

Hi mrz,

Re your comment:-

"When teachers say they don't think you will get a statement it is because they are aware how difficult it is to get one under the present system".

I would disagree in that I still feel it is also said sometimes by these people to put people off from applying. These people cannot make such a decision, the LEA does. It can be harder these days to get a Statement but they are still obtainable and LEA's are still granting them.

Attila

Fluffy,

I have seen situations not totally dissimilar to yours before now. You cannot take any notice of the nay-sayers saying to you repeatedly, "no he won't get a Statement". This best friend you know, she does not properly know about your son's social difficulties in school simply because she is not there day to day with him.

The private education system and the whole area of ASD can be uneasy bedfellows. These schools set their own rules and agendas regarding SEN. My guess as well is that the private school simply did not want the extra work of having to cater to your son's additional needs even though he did well at the entrance exam. I would not think they will give you a straight answer either as to why. It can be hard enough to get childrens additional educational needs properly met in the state sector.

The long and short of it is that unless you apply for a Statement yourself you won't know. The only way you will know properly is to write to the Chief Education Officer at your LEA requesting a statutory assessment.

You could really do with some independent educational advocates to help you. IPSEA are helpful in this regard and their website is www.ipsea.org.uk. Also ACE and SOS;SEN are good in this field too.

Two schools have failed your son here in different ways and this is mainly because his additional needs have not been met. What are the secondary schools like where you are, secondary can be very hard for pupils with social and or communication difficulties.

I would seriouly consider HE for the next year, certainly don't send him back to his current school.

Attila

BTW I would agree with your posting name; the Daily Mail is indeed shite!.

I have to say my experience matches that of Atilla; there are many complex reasons why schools don't advocate statements, in our case it was a competitive school that had no choice accepting ds1 for technical reasons not wanting a statement to show on their documents when temptiong nice NT MC kids.

There are also, sadly, still teachers out there (again, we had the misfortune to encounter one- quote 'there's no such thing as autism, just abd parents') who just do not get IT.

Most do, we're lucky enough that ds1's now do (after transfer) but heck its been a battle, and one that may yet end with me HE'ing as he goes into upper school and a more 'threatening' environment (in his eyes).

It's always worth applying for a statement- sometimes you will get a nice surprise despite what you have been told (we did first time around, second child we knew we'd get it as more severe) but also becuase if you can get to the assessment stage, ytour Paed may well be able to utlise a lot of the reprts when deciding if a DX is warranted- that happened with ds1 and sped things up massively (still took 2 years mind!).

As for parents may see thingsa teacher does not... well parents of ASD kids often do, thats an accepted and acknowledged part of spectrum disorder, that kids present differently in different settings. Certainly there are a very few apranoid aprents out there, but mostly a parents worry is well worth pursuing to assessment stage.

BTW:

I followed Atilla's advice in my former guise as Peachy, she really does know her stuff on this.

AttilaTheMeerkat what possible motive would a teacher have for putting off a parent?

By LilyOfTheMountain on Sun 23-Aug-09 15:00:18
"As for parents may see thingsa teacher does not... well parents of ASD kids often do, thats an accepted and acknowledged part of spectrum disorder, that kids present differently in different settings. Certainly there are a very few apranoid aprents out there, but mostly a parents worry is well worth pursuing to assessment stage. "

I am in no way suggesting that FluffySaysTheDailyMailsShite is a paranoid parent and that she doesn't know her son but
I'm sure you will agree that for ASD children to "hold things together" all day at school is very stressful for them and sometimes this will be reflected in completely different behaviour in the home and school.
Parents I work with often tell me their child is a nightmare outside school whereas the child we see in school rarely puts a foot wrong or visa - versa, this doesn't mean that what the parent or school sees is inaccurate, just that the child is making a huge effort which they struggle to maintain 24/7.
As a parent I was told by EPs more times than I care to remember that I was an "over protective mother"

I didnt for one minute think you thought that about the OP lol,I assumed it 3was a generalisation

The holding together thing- we used that to help get our statement:the stress ds1 was under even trying to dio that at school was making home life untenable- in which case we'd have had to ask for r4esidential. Almost always it all comes down to balancing costs after all. DS3's SNU place relied on a willow fence PMSL

Hi mrz,

Think some teachers trot out the "he/she won't get a statement" line out of a combo of ignorance and towing the party line.

I can't speak for private schools as I have no experience of working with SEN in that system but in the maintained sector obtaining a statement for a child is seen as a very positive move. It makes a teacher's life so much easier if the funding is there to provide for a child's needs rather than struggling along alone. Teachers get very frustrated with the whole process and the obstacles to gaining a statement for children so I don't know any that would want to deter parents from trying.

Our school is not private but absolutely it does operate outside the normal state model.
It is, in fact, a bizarre anomally.

The schools that tend to have the biggest denial issues really do seem to be those that believe a high number of children with SEN register entries will scare away the 'nice' aprents (), it is something I see more and more as I speak to people. Indeed I have a genuine belief that often the best school for a child with SEN is the averagely performing one that people name third on the forms- IME they are caring, committed and knowledgeable.