is private REALLY better?

[ChuppaChups]

just out of interest, i would appreciate some OPINIONS on this area as i am seriously considering the move to private from state. The main reason being is we are now financially able to do so.

So, is it better and why?

Thanks

Some of that is also true Jane but sometimes you have to stop making excuses and stand up for your own children.
My Mum left school at 15 barely able to read but she still valued my education...
But whatever the reason for their lack of involvement, i still question whether this can be overcome by the school, even if it were a much better.

Private schools are not always better resourced than state schools.

When 'failing' state schools undergo 'special measures' the answer is not to throw more money at it but is more likely to be a 'from the ground up' approach to attempt to change the mindset of students/parents and a few disillusioned members of staff.

The wrong mindset is the problem.

stillstanding when you are paying out thousands of pounds for your child's education you surely want the person delivering it to have some sort of qualification?

Absolutely Litchick.

My mum left school at 12 but, to her, our education was really important.

Now if I knew that, Metella, I'd be earning mega-bucks in a government think tank and letting others do the teaching!

thedolly - that's kind of where I'm coming from.
Even if some of the things I hate about the school were changed - some green space fgs, more TAs, smaller classes, larger classrooms, shedding those teachers who are clearly hating every moment, shedding those puils who live to cause pain and annoyance to others...
Even if we could do all that, would it make any difference to the majority of the pupils if their parents are not engaged?

I suppose you need to be able to separate the "scared/intimidated" from the "don't-give-a-damn" and work on the former.

I wish I knew how to do that...

parents being uninterested are obviously going to be a problem. But a lack of interest may not be a positive hinderance to a pupil.

I think a lot comes down to the teachers themselves. I have several friends who went into the state system with a real vocation, but have been utterly ground down by the piles of useless form filling and the truly terrible behaviour of children. The one friend I have teaching in the private sector loves her job. Anecdotal, I know, but I can't help but feel that I want a happy teacher for my dds. Which is why I'm seriously considering going private - against my principles, but I can't change government policy on my own.

There is a valid argument to be heard about whether the state provision is effectively serving the greatest number of children in the most suitable way. And if it's not, how it can be more efficiently made to do so. And if it can't, then what alternative should be available and how access to this would be made possible. Always with the needs of the children at the centre, not the parents.

It doesn't take long to break down our current system and see that, in many ways, it's crazy.

stillstanding i get your point.

a teaching qualification doesnt mean you are a good teacher. it merely means you bothered to turn up to the lectures, did your min required practice and passed whatever exams you needed to.

My SIL freely admits her pgce was "a piece of piss" and that she did it and teaches for an easy life. THAT IS NOT TO SAY that all teachers are like this OF COURSE. merely that a piece of paper is a fairly arbitrary measure of your ability to teach WELL.

uqd i think you know exactly what i mean. perhaps my own private school Edinburgh UCT OU education doesnt allow me to communicate with the oxbridge educated elite.

UQD I agree that it is crazy but how to fix it?

Sure. I know exactly what is meant by "life is not fair is a fairly accurate distillation of numerous philosophical and scientific texts." It's not the vague unsupported generality of the statement which is at fault at all, but my inability to understand it.

Metella - good question. Certainly not by standing still and accepting the status quo.

Change government policy to what? Less form filling? I think the 'truely terrible behaviour of children' is what needs to be changed and unfortunately there is no govermnent policy to change that.

I agree that parents do not need to be actively involved in their childrens education - it may even be better if they're not in some cases.

SLF - to be fair to the teachers at this school that I do not rate, they may well have been brill to start with but have been ground down. That is true. I didn't know them so couldn't say.
Frankly, I only help out there and sometimes I feel ground down.

You are always going to get people who don't agree/don't want to agree with the masses. If you take private schools out of this debate then there's going to be something else in it's place pretty soon.

You can please some of the people some of the time, but not all of the people all of the time and all that!

That should be 'some of the people all of the time' Doh!!

You know what I mean!!

well making it easier for schools to exclude people (and then providing a suitable alternative once they were excluded) would presumably help....

removing low level disruption in class would be a great help.

Kathy - damn right! But there has got to be a suitable alternative, rather than the extremely limited options which are available at present.

I refer to my earlier post which said something along the lines of what difference would it make to the state sector if there was no private sector - the answer is still none.

It may make a difference though if there were more state school/private school partnerships. Any ideas?

I'm not sure if the Jones' would wish to mingle with people like me thedolly

I think the state sector needs to look at what makes the private sector work so well and do the same. There is a huge draw to individual targets/facilities/discipline so the state schools should take a look at why private schools attract families. There will always be some who don't want Tarquin mixing with Billy but sorting out the discipline problems that are rife in alot of schools will be a good start. I wouldn't be seeking out a PS if the discipline problems in DS's school had been addressed.

Discipline is definitely a key issue.

didn't alan millburn write a piece in The Observer the other day saying that where private schools outstripped the state was with the 'soft skills' ie. social skills, confidence etc and that he attributed a lot of this to the emphasis put on teamwork and drama and music and all those 'extras' in the private sector. That, in effect, it was the well-roundedness of these children which made them stand out (which rather sticks in the craw, as on MN we'd rather believe that they weren't socially confident, well-rounded, or well educated children but twits and twerps with plums in their mouths who don't know how to talk to normal people. Godamnit)

so now the state system has to factor in drama and music and teamwork and 'soft skills' into their already crowded and problematic time-tables

he also said that social mobility had slowed down because everyone in the know was giving jobs and internships to the children of others in the know

not because the comprehensive system didn't work, and that perhaps grammar schools had been a good thing for social mobility all along