is private REALLY better?

[ChuppaChups]

just out of interest, i would appreciate some OPINIONS on this area as i am seriously considering the move to private from state. The main reason being is we are now financially able to do so.

So, is it better and why?

Thanks

charitygirl - I completely disagree that it is pointless at primary. Primary school is where allt he foundations are laid, and what happens in primary can affect the rest of a child's learning and education. Which is why we made sure we chose the best school we could for our DD. (that is regardless of whether state or private BTW)

depends upon the school and the child...what private does get you is a chnance to choose the emphasis you wish for your child - sporty, accedmic, a teacher that can spell , music....

smaller class sizes are good, but too small and it can be hard for a child to make friends - I had 11 once and it was a nightmare as I had an odd number of girls and one always got left out at playtimes and I spent hours and hours trying to get them to play together.

but not all private schools are better...the one where dd1 is at I have concerns abouut the timetable where lessons are oddly split and in the pressure to do all the nice "private school bit - DT, languages, sport etc" she will have key lessons in the afternoon - num and lit which is the not the best time and some are even split so she will have 1 lesson of num in the morning and the 2nd half in the afternoon - this wouldn't happen in a state school

We moved 2 of ours from a poor state school to a very good private. I would do it again (if we could only afford it ). Having said that, a friend sent his girls to a private primary and moved them because they weren't doing well at all. It really depends on the school.

For us the pluses at primary were

• smaller class (16 against 34)
• whole-class teacher-led (old fashioned) learning suited DS much better
• could drop off early and pick up late
• occasional boarding was really handy
• specialist teachers in Y5 and Y6
• specialist teachers for sport
• fantastic grounds

"Good" private is better than "bad" state. And vice versa.

Oh, and don't be fooled by the class sizes thing - you need ALWAYS to ask how many adults are working in the classroom. A state school may have 30 in the class - but a teacher and two TAs worming there. A private school may have 15 - but only one teacher.

Gosh I hope 'worming' doesn't go on in my ds's classroom!

Oh, I forgot - in private schools 'worming"is an extra. As is "nitting". And "reeling, rithing and fainting in coils"!!

You really need to read the small print on the bill.

Have never yet seen any school where there is more than one general TA in a class, with a teacher for 30 children. Only time I have seenit is where a child in the class has to have a constant one to one support, and then there may well be a second TA working with the other children. However the TA assigned to the one specific child works with that child only and rarely with other children.

In the case I saw the little girl has Dwon's Syndrome and needs constatnt support in the school. The TA never works with the other children unless she is taking out another child to work directly as a pair, to help her charge with something specific.

In most other situations I find it is, at most, 30 children, one teacher and one TA. In a number of situatiosn the TA may only be part time too (such as me).

DD is in a class of 14, which is lovely I have to admit. She is in Y2 and there is no TA, but there is no need for one really. I help out 2 afternoons a week and do work with hildren, but it is also something that the teacher could manage alone if required.

In DD's school the reception class always has a TA in the class, so even with a cvlass of 14 the FT teacher had a FT TA with her.

It always amazes me that people never worry about the much higher rates of child abuse in Private settings...........

As almost always withthese threads it depends ENTIRELY upon the child and the individual school !!!

Trying - well it always amazes me that people are generally more fixated with abuse outside the home when it is infinately more likely to happen via your home realtionships through 'friends' and relatives.

So no. I don't have abuse at DCs school top of my list. And actually my son at a state school is far more vulnerable as he has SN

my reference to the economic climate was no relection of my thoughts on your ability to pay chuppa, It was merely noting that due to it more private schools are likely to have vacancies at short notice (if that's what you need).

I'm still unclear what age you are looking transfering at.

One thing to remember is that if you have had a child in paid-for nursery, then private primary school fees seem insignificant. And then the cost goes up and up but you are in the system, so it's harder to imagine "downgrading" to the state sector...but it can become financially crippling within a few years.

I have mixed feelings about private schools for primary level: there are so many good schools out there in the state sector. But it totally depends on the child.

Any state provision is going to work better if a certain percentage of people opt out, thereby reducing the burden - if you want to opt out, it benefits others, but it may not benefit you, iyswim.

tryingtobemarypoppins - do you have any statics for that claim?

tryingtobemarypoppins - do you have any statistics for that claim?

My mum is a child protection advisor for the county and often refers to the poor lack of understanding about reporting of known or suspected cases of abuse that came to their attention. Off course many go unreported as the financial damage to these schools is huge.

Ofsted don't monitor most private schools child protection processes. Private schools often don't fully go through CRB checks and follow up references. They employ teachers known to them........sorry to add that these teachers have often not lasted long in the state system. Teachers working in private schools are often untrained in spotting child abuse victims and following SS guidance on reporting.

There are loads of issues around boarding
......perhaps this is the wrong thread! Hulababy I'll ask her about the stats.

Honestly, I don't think this can be said often enough - it depends entirely on the local choices you have available.

My dcs are at a private prep school and are thriving. Academically the school is good, but the thing I'm happiest with is the outstanding pastoral care. I would say the racial mix of the school is far better than we would get if they went to our local state option - I'm not sure I can say the same of social/economic diversity (there are certainly people who clearly struggle with the fees, but there is no-one I'm aware of who is really truly poor as I'd define it).

For me, I still think my heart is in the state system. I was state educated, but my education was pretty poor. Not just in academic terms, but the aspirations were just zero. I remember going to see the careers adviser and saying I was interested in doing a law degree - he literally laughed, looked at the name of my school, and said "no chance." As it happens (and with no thanks to my crummy secondary) I went on to get a law degree and worked for some years as a lawyer in the City. Great you may say, but it was bloody hard work doing it with so little support.

DH on the other hand went to an amazing grammar school and I would say had a better education than many who've been privately educated. My aim would actually be to move to state at 11, but I'm not sure how viable that will be.

Other than going on personal experience, I'm just not sure how useful this kind of debate is to your personal choices. We all have our prejudices, this is an emotive subject, and without knowing your dcs it's hard to even begin to advise.

It's all about the schools. DS attended a fantastic private school and is now in a less than perfect state school.

His friend has moved from that fantastic private school into an even better state school.

His other friend has moved from that fantastic private school into another very well known private school which happens to have a worse ofsted report than my DS' less than perfect state school.

So do your research, you may end up paying thousands from something you can get for free.

Private schools nearly always encourage more music than state ones (remembering that your dd is musical). You will almost certainly be able to have instrument/singing lessons during the school day - BUT: peris I have spoken to all say that children having private lessons outside school tend to do better than those having lessons at school (even in private schools). Private school is more likely to have more orchestras & ensembles (make sure you can still participate if having lessons outside school if that's what you will do). All Private schools will claim to be good for music in my experience, but some are a lot better than others.

Can only repeat what has already been said. We looked at both for both children and ended up sending them to the state options. We are very lucky that are state options are excellent and imo much better value than the local private schools. However I am sure I'd be saying something different had our state option been rubbish.

I can see boarding may be more of an issue, but again very limited surely.

Yur description of private schools is very different to what happens here IME. CRB checks happen in exactly the same way as they do in the state system IME. And the independent sector have their own inspections which do look at procedures and policies.

I would, however, be interested to see statistics that show that abuse if more likely tohappen in modern private schools as opposed to modern state schools.

I have to say the thing about abuse wouldn't be a factor in my decision at all.

Depends on the school. My children go to an excellent state school, even though i can afford private. The facilities at the state school are brilliant and the school has a good christian ethos. I also believe that private school at primary level is a waste of money. At primary level, i believe that parental imput is much more important than the school a child attends.

The only thing with the music and sport is does your child have to be good to join in?

We went to a recital (orchestral) given by the Junior school Y3-6. Having sat through some truly dire school performances over the years I wasn't looking forward to it. But it was fantastic- just like being at a professional performance. The downside is that if your child is only just about scraping along they do not get to be part of this orchestra.

Same with the sport- only the good players get to play. (tho we got that at state too).

elvislives - in DD's prep school no. ALL children from prep (juniors) are in the orchestra and the choir. Around 70% of the children have individual instrument lessons, at an extra cost (£100 a term I think) and some have private lessons elsewhere. They all learn the recorder and keyboard as well. They all do singing and choir practise. So, at DD;s (small) school participation is for all and no one is excluded. Despite this the school still perform extremely well and have come very well placed (inc first place a nunber of times) in various competitions, etc. between a range of schools in both sectors.