is private REALLY better?

[ChuppaChups]

just out of interest, i would appreciate some OPINIONS on this area as i am seriously considering the move to private from state. The main reason being is we are now financially able to do so.

So, is it better and why?

Thanks

If private schools are better it has very little to do with the teachers and a lot to do with the students. The same goes for state. Too many disaffected students is the real problem. Did the education system cause the situation ar is a it a victim of it?

Don't worry about your points going unrefuted UQD - mine are largely ignored

Life is of course not fair, and for most of us that's a bitter pill we have to swallow.
Governments should of course use tax money to try to alleviate the unfairness that many children suffer.
I am not for one second saying the children I help with deserve any less than my kids but their problems stem fromm far more than school.
They largely come from a disadvantaged estate. Largely their parents are uneducated and often not working.
But the main problem is that the parents are disinterested. I volunteer because they won't. And yet they have the vested interest not me.
Recently I pulled in a few favours from some writers and we put on a 'book night.' Authors attending, books being given out etc. About five kids and their parents came.
Yet when we put on a school fair wiht some z list sleb in tow, they turned up in their feckin droves grrrrrr.

thedolly - someone once linked to a very reputable study which clearly demonstrated that teachers in private schools had, on average, better qualifications (better universities and better class of degree) than state school teachers.

I don't think purchasing things has anything to do with education more to do with advertising and one-upmanship. We are told by the advertisers that we can't possibly live without x, y and z and we succumb but that realy has nothing to do with the OP

Personally I think it's too much ideology and government interference that is the problem, which is why I don't think private schools are a bad thing - better to have a few people unaffected by this than no-one.

Litchick - But that is why those children need the very best that education can offer them. If school doesn't broaden their experiences, nowhere else will. Instead, those who can afford private AND pony-riding AND gym club AND mind-expanding holidays AND art club etc etc continue to get all of the opportunities available and those at 'the bottom' get none, thus continuing the circle. That is why putting money into a good state education FOR ALL has got to be the priority.

I think if we're talking about the basics of education then both state and private are equally good, in that if your basic education requires that children read and write, then job done both sectors can and do achieve that.
Anything over and above that is a bonus and needs to be funded some how. You will not find many people (although most who do hold these beliefs seem to be on mumsnet) who are willing to pay for the masses to have the same opportunities as they or their family had/has.
The housing ladder is a great example, the current generation are pulling that up behind them and nobody seems to be getting worked up about that and I'd argue housing is a far greater need than education.
It's like saying what is the purpose of the NHS, is it to save lives or is it to improve lives ?

BA taken from www.privateschools.co.uk/jobs.htm

1. Do I need a teaching qualification to teach in a private school?

private schools are permitted to set their own requirements with regard to qualifications so, unlike state schools, a teaching qualification is not insisted upon. However, times are changing. While previously a private school might have been happy to appoint a teacher on the basis of their academic credentials alone, it is now more likely the case that they prefer teachers to be qualified and experienced.

1. Do UK private schools accept overseas qualifications?

If you qualified overseas, private schools will expect you to meet the following criteria. You should have the right to work in the UK without recourse to a work permit. Your qualification should be recognised by NARIC as equivalent to those of a British teacher. Your application will be greatly enhanced if you have already taught in the UK, ideally in the independent sector here or overseas.

Good info mrz. I know BA claims that teachers have better qualifications (better universities and better class of degrees) in private schools, but I would imagine most teachers know that having a first from Oxford does not necessarily mean someone can teach. Intelligence does not equate to teaching ability. I have certainly taught alongside highly qualified (in BA's view) teachers who really struggled with classes.

Nor does having some arbitrary teaching diploma make for better teachers though either, Kemble

I am quite aware that many posters, and many people in RL, find it hard to swallow the idea that other people are able to buy their children educational opportunities that are unavailable to the great majority of children.

You know what? I am unable to buy the kind of education for my children that I would like. That doesn't mean I want other people, for whom it is available, to be deprived of it. It is good for individuals and good for society that people be as educated as possible and develop all their talents. Sadly, basic economics means that state funding will never be able to offer that to everyone.

BA a better class of degree does make a better teacher. There are fantastic teachers in both systems.

There is a huge amount of good work going on in education in this country. Tons of research and FWIW, I think the NC is fantastic - I don't understand why people keep rubbishing it.

Kathy - if by government interference you mean red tape then that's probably true but what's the alternative? We been there have we not?

Litchick my dds school is next to a large estate. Many of the parents both work in low paid jobs and so cannot volunteer. Some are unwell some are single with young kids. Some were not served well themselves by the education system and find it too daunting to enter school. They are not all sitting at home watching TV.

Oop - I meant to say a better class of degree does not make a better teacher necessarily

stillstanging - arbitrary teaching diploma? Which decade of which century do you reside in? Four years of a BEd, or similar, or an honours degree and PGCE are hardly "arbitrary"

What is this, 'arbitrary teaching diploma' of which you speak?

It is not state funding that is the problem. It is something else entirely for which the state may or may not be responsible.

Litchick the lack of success of your book night demonstrates that something 'else' is required if students are to actively engage in education - I just don't know what that something else is.

"It is not state funding that is the problem. It is something else entirely for which the state may or may not be responsible."

What, pray?

Resources are absolutely critical to education. They are not the only factor that determines the successful outcome of an educational experience, but they are much the first.

Apologies, Kemble - hit send before I was quite ready there and was being totally flippant.

What I mean is that imo teaching is a real gift and is not necessarily something that you can study or learn. Two of the best teachers that I ever had had no formal "teaching" training as such but an enormous love of their subject and the ability to inspire young people with it.

I don't believe that a person who has a teaching degree will necessarily be a better teacher than a person who has a first from Oxford. Nor do I believe in the reverse.

The paragraphs that mrz copied out therefore have no bearing for me on whether or not private schools will have better teachers except to show that there is more flexibility in the system.

Araminta - some of them may indeed nebe working full time and thus cannot volunteer one morning a month. And they work day and night so can't come to book nights or parents evenings or anything else either.
But not all...
I was brought up on a very rough sink estate and my Mum worked on a market stall in the freezing cold but she never, ever missed anything to do with school.

And whoever said that this means more needs to be put into these children's education becuase of the situation is right. And I don't begrudge the billions spent by the state trying to improve things. And if I ruled the world this particular school would have to make some serious improvements. But will you ever be able to overcome disinterest at home?

herhonesty - I have no idea what that is supposed to mean. What a poor and humble grammar school and Oxbridge education I must have had.

I too am wondering about the "arbitrary teaching diploma" comment and would like it explained.

Litchick - yes, some parents in deprived areas are disinterested but many others are just plain terrified of coming into school, either because they had no education themselves, or they are illiterate (in even their first language, let alone English), or their children are more academically able than they are and so they feel intimidated etc etc etc.

Janeit, you are being very very generous I'm afraid, having lived and been brought up and educated in such an environment myself I can tell you that for the majority school is something that gives you 6 hours peace from the kids and that's as far as it goes.
We've had 10 years now of this government valently pouring in money, resources and training for teachers, I think it's time to just admit that some people are lazy feckers and if they aren't starving they won't work and that then creates a cycle of state dependent individuals who many good teachers will waste hours and resources on and the outcome will be the same.

What can be done to help them janeite? Because something should be done - if the parents are not helped then the children will suffer.

I have no idea if it is posible to overcome disinterest at home. I agree with you that it is very sad. Something has to change I don't see the point in dd sitting in a classroom of people who do not want to learn either.