unconditional parents- how do you deal with reward systems in school??

[thisisyesterday]

ds1 is due to start school in september and on my big list of "things to worry about" is the kind of reward systems they may (or may not) use.

I have heard about schools using reward charts for good behaviour, and in some cases even having things like a smiley face chart on the wall where a child who "misbehaves" gets an unhappy face stuck up. or gets their name moved from a sunshine to a grey cloud.

I was just wondering how you deal with this really??? do your kids just accept that school have a different way of dealing with things? do you feel pressured to do it at home too?

ok but learning to function in a wider community isn't reliant on having a sticker is it??
i never had them as a child and can function perfectly well.

or maybe that's why I hated my last job so much? I never got a sticker for my good work

a reward for working, or doing what you should is NOT going to happen out in the wider world. so why are we teaching our children that it's the only reason to get on and do stuff??

muppetgirl, he sounds a lot like my ds1 lol

Hmmm, I disagree muppetgirl (not that I use sticker charts, but about their basic premise).

Eg, Recently I told DS that I would give him a chocolate raisin every time he wiped his own bottom at home (at school he has to, anyway). He refused to do it at home previously. We did this for a week, then he started forgetting to ask for the chocolate, he had gained confidence and established a new habit. After another week or so I said that I would no longer give him chocolate for each clean bottom, because we both knew he could do it himself.

He has been fine with this, he now does his own bottom all the time -- RESULT!! . So short term reward has achieved a long term change, without argument or conflict.

And your example about the shoes... I have had DS screaming and crying (badly fraying my nerves) on the way to school, because he refused to put his gloves on before he left home, and putting gloves on half way there doesn't help; his hands are too cold by then. This went on for months although finally (hey, we're only 3/4 thru the winter), DS understands the idea about putting his gloves on before his hands get cold.

Most people would say I was too soft and negligent for not always making him wear the gloves, and therefore 'allowing' his hands to get so cold. If it's not one lot criticising my parenting choices, it's the other...

I can well understand why you don't like the public reward system, thisisyesterday. I feel the same, they often don't work and you want your children to behave anyway.

But at the same time- your ds is growing up, he will be spending more time with other people, whether at school or playing at his friends' house or at sleepovers or on school trips. He will have to learn that different people have different ideas of what is fair.

There will almost certainly be times when he gets upset over this. It will your job to gently help him to get things into proportion and show him how to deal with it. It doesn't have to be a massive conflict: if you can be relaxed over it, then that will help him to adapt.

My children have handled me (no rewards for anything), a childminder who was heavily into stickers, various teachers with various approaches, different friends with different rulers at home. At the end of the day, the message they have taken away is that a certain standard of behaviour is expected regardless of the system.

If they come home (as happens) fuming because a teacher has been unfair, I will lend a sympathetic ear and possibly offer a cup of tea, but will not intervene unless there is a serious problem of bullying or discrimination. 'oh dear' is a phrase that has got us through a lot of difficult patches over the years. Works very well for friendship problems too.

seeker -I have never given children a sticker for getting changed for pe. I would explain we have a certain time frame, give them a timer if necessary that is longer than the required time and then slowly narrow it down to the time I would like. This has never failed to work even with my most difficult children. Yes, make it into a competition if you like -can the boys beat the girls? You'd be amazed at how many children begin to help each other with this way as they are working as a team rather than as an individual. They are pleased because the team has one, not just because they did.

I found you thisisyesterday.

We don't do rewards and punishments at home.

DS's school has a reward scheme. I don't really understand his explanation but he accumulates points and comes home once a month with some kind of business marketing thing eg key ring, pen or balloon.

He is well behaved at school but I know the other children get lines or deprived of breaktime.

There's no pressure to change they way things are done at home. Like other posters have said, children are used to different ways of doing things at home and school.

He is pleased to get the rewards but doesn't seem to be motivated by it. It is just something that happens because he is naturally intelligent and attentive in class.

But this is the only first year. I occasionally worry about the long term effects but I not enough to enviseage home educating.

We had children using skipping ropes to tie other children to trees...

We had older children lining reception children up and throwing stones at them...

The lunch time ladies were very adamant they wanted a system where Johnny was given a sticker for not tying children to trees.
I disagreed. We should reward behaviour over and above what is expected. Our society does this with award ceremonies, OBE's etc. So the children who had behaved all lunchtime got nothing yet little Johnny would get a sticker for not being violent?

We didn?t implement the system just talked to the children about what they wanted out of lunchtimes, why they behaved the way they did. We gave the older children responsibilities and made them feel worthwhile in booking equipment in and out, looking after the younger children and this slowly stared to work. They wanted the lunchtime ladies to initiate games which we started and we supported the ladies by helping at difficult times -when the bell went, getting the children to line up etc. By showing support for each other -children to children, adult to children and adult to adult we all worked together to make playtime more fun and less frightening for the children.

NO stickers necessary and they learned a life lesson of how to get on with other people which will stay with them for the next stage of their lives.

I think DS definitely thinks about more about the punishments. He is always telling me who did what wrong and how they got punished. We have even chatted about the appropriateness of the punishments.

He knows it I think it is would be better for a 7 yr old who is having difficulty concentrating in class to run around at breaktime rather than to sit inside doing lines.

Muppetgirl, your school sounds wonderful!

I'm really interested by this thread. Without realising I've been doing it, I've been doing UP I think, right through. I've never had a 'naughty step', nor sticker charts or anything like that. I always reason things out with dd (or try to, she's quite willful at the moment) and give her options.

Perhaps this is part of the reason she finds it so difficult to adjust to the reward chart system at school? I hadn't thought of it like that before.

I do buy her treats sometimes, impromptu, if I think she's done really well but I guess that's different? She had a swimming exam last weekend and it was very tough but she got through it. When she came out I said I was proud of her and she could choose something for herself to say well done.

cory and otherside, you are both right of course, that ds will have to get used to people doing things differently, and it's great to hear that they can manage this without it impacting on life at home or becoming disheartened at school
I guess that's really what I wanted a reassurance about.
he is, of course, my pfb and I hate the thought of him getting upset by something and me not being there, but that's probably a whole other thread lol

and agree... I hope ds1 gets a teacher like you muppetgirl!

mg if you were dd's teacher I'm sure she'd be finding school at lot better.

You can't always be there but you can talk to him about it afterwards.

Muppetgirl - I'm actually embarrassed by how moved I am by what you've written. It's wonderful. My dc have been taught by people like you and I can tell you now, you make a difference, you touch their lives. I hope you know that.

Thisisyesterday - thank you for posting this thread.

Reading it has brought me a sudden insight into what's been going on with our family relationship with the dc's school. It's been liberating, though a bit strange. I think my earlier posts were a little marked by a certain vehemence. Oops.

you're welcome! I didn't expect it to get such a big response I have to admit

don't get me wrong I do 'reward' my ds, he's trying so hard with his reading and writing, but it's a mixture of 'well done ds, hug/kiss/sya we're so proud and can see your trying' to buying little treats. It just isn;t an expectation..

My friend's ds came out of school the othe day with a merit sticker (big deal at our school) and then shouted at his mum 'I got a merit sticker that's £5!' He's 4.10 fgs what is she going to pay when he's 8? 10? Ds got one for 'sitting still' and when I asked him what he got it for he said 'I really couldn't tell you'

The school I worked in was very tough and it took a lot of time to change ingrained behaviour. This is what I feel many teachers don't/can't do is give this approach time. It's much easier to offer incentives to gain control over children's behaviour but it's a short term solution. You just pass the problem onto the next teacher who may have their own startegies for controlling behaviour. What happens when the classes end and the children then have to think for themselves?

sorry for the rubbish spelling, I'm eating and typing one handedly!

At home I never did sticker charts or naughty steps, there is no need to when you have only a few children and you know their personalities and have time for individual attention, you can reason with them. I wouldn't let a DC go out without shoes, I dare say that they should take the consequences but in some things I am the adult and putting on shoes isn't a choice (unless it is high summer). There are also things that they just don't do and are not open to negotiation.
In school it is a bit different and again a lot depends on the children you have-you can't make blanket rules for every class. I don't believe in giving rewards for something that they should be doing anyway but I think it is lovely to reward success for children who have really made an effort with something, for some children this may simply be sitting still and listening. I don't believe in giving them a sticker merely because they decide to do it at odd moments to get a sticker, but if they know that they have a problem with it and are making a sustained effort I would use praise. I always make a special point of noticing the shy, quiet children because I was the shy quiet child!
As I said yesterday, if the whole class is in a mess a few table points does wonders and I really don't care as long as it is cleared up quickly! The points give motivation to those who don't like tidying up!
I much prefer to praise the positive than be negative all the time.
Someone said that a teacher should just have natural authority and in an ideal world they would. It all depends on the makeup of the class, if you have the majority that are motivated and well behaved it pulls the rest up, sadly if the majority don't want to learn and are not well behaved they pull the rest down. Some classes are a delight, some are about crowd control. It would be interesting to see how some of the more idealistic among you tried to cope with 30 of the latter!

thisisyesterday you said -

"a reward for working, or doing what you should is NOT going to happen out in the wider world. so why are we teaching our children that it's the only reason to get on and do stuff??"

What do you think being paid is? Many people do enjoy their jobs but there are many others in soul destroying jobs who are doing it simply because they need the money. Similarly there are many behaviours that are modified in adults by the use of sanctions or laws as we call them. The heart surgeon may well get intrinsic satisfaction and enjoyment fron his job a washer up in a cafe (been there done that!) may not have satisfaction and would certainly not do it without some sort of reward. It is misleading to suggest that all activities can be intrinsically satisfying or enjoyable for everyone.

To give a school example, many assemblies are boring as hell, some people sit through them because they don't want a sanction if they walk out, some sit through them to get a sticker, some enjoy them and some are bored but not bored enough to do anything else. None of these reasons is any better than the other.

pisces, muppetgirl has already explained how she coped, very well indeed, with an unruly class of children!
it isn't all down to the kids.

londonone, I think we'll have to agree to disagree. I'm not sure you fully understand the meaning of "unconditional parenting", which is not surprising if you've never read anything about it.

am not about to get into an argument on the pros and cons of my ways of parenting, but I do disagree with most of your last post!!!!

I came on to ask other people who parent in the same style as me how they cope with conflicts between school and home life. I've had some great answers from people who understand where I am coming from and the issues I am worried about

and while you're all more than welcome to tell me how you do things differently and why, I'm afraid i'm just going to have to quietly ignore it!

As far as work is concerned, yes people get some kind of payment as a 'reward'.

But what about consideration for others?

i wouldn't even class your salary as a reward anyway.
you are selling a commodity to an employer... ie, your skills and your time. and they are giving you something back

that isn't a reward.

a reward would be a bonus for doing your job really well, or really quickly

and yes, those of us who choose not to abide b society's rules get a "punishment"

but let's face it, and this really is a whole other thread, prison terms don't appear to have any effect do they? otherwise why the enormous amount of repeat offenders?
ditto the treating young offenders to holidays and all that in an attempt to "reward" them for behaving.

it just doesn't work.

thisisyesterday - As I said parenting is rather different from teaching and I think I misunderstood your OP as I thought you were suggesting that schools should follow a UP model. Having reread I see you are more looking at potential conflicts for your children. My apologies, I think we will have to agree to disagree on the world of work however!

Home is home.

School is school.

Different behaviours are rewarded in different places. Children need to learn this lesson early in life.