Y6 teacher upsetting DS and he doesn't want to go to school. How would you approach the school,

[Drazzzamba]

Year 6 teacher upsetting DS — how would you approach the school, especially while references are being written?
I’d really appreciate some advice from parents who know the English primary school system from the inside. We moved to the UK for work and are still learning how things are usually handled here.
DS joined his current Catholic state primary towards the end of Year 5. He loved school last year, settled in well and had very good relationships with his teachers. It is a highly rated school in a well-regarded area. There is a new headteacher this academic year.
Since starting Year 6 with a different teacher, he has been coming home very upset, sometimes crying, and increasingly saying he doesn’t want to go to school.
According to him, the teacher frequently shouts at the class and says things along the lines of “I really want to go home” and “I’m tired of you.” He also reports her threatening to write children bad secondary school references because they are badly behaved. She frequently threatens to keep them in at break and sometimes does so.
I appreciate that this is my child’s account, and I haven’t heard the teacher’s perspective. I also don’t think my child is incapable of being irritating or contributing to a difficult situation.
He is academically strong and finds quite a lot of the work easy. He enjoys debating, challenges things and can probably make his boredom rather too obvious. I would not be surprised if there were some eye-rolling. He is also an atheist in a Catholic school and asks questions about religion that may not always be welcome. I can see how the combination could be wearing for a teacher, and I am happy to address any inappropriate behaviour on his part.
However, none of his Year 5 teachers raised concerns about him, and he still has very positive relationships with the other teachers he knows. The change in how he feels about school has been striking, and I’m concerned about his emotional wellbeing if this continues for the rest of the year.
The timing makes me hesitant about how to proceed. He has done well in the grammar school entrance exams so far, with one more exam to go. We are also applying to independent schools as alternatives. They have now requested school references, and I have just paid the school’s reference fee. I assume his current teacher will have some involvement in writing them.
Part of me thinks we should get through this stage of admissions and have the references completed before raising anything. But I’m uncomfortable with waiting if he continues coming home this distressed.
I’m not looking to go in all guns blazing or demand disciplinary action against the teacher. I want to find a constructive way for him to feel happy and comfortable at school again. Ideally, the classroom situation would improve. Otherwise, I would like to explore a move to a parallel Year 6 class, although I don’t yet know whether that would be possible.
For those with experience of this, what would your first steps be?
Would you speak to the teacher first, or request a confidential meeting with the head, given that the concern is about the teacher herself? How would you raise the effect on your child without the conversation immediately becoming defensive? And is moving to a parallel class something schools will realistically consider in these circumstances?
I’d also appreciate honest views on whether the reference situation should affect the timing.
I don’t have many people around me with first-hand experience of navigating English schools, so some real-life parental experience would be very welcome. Thank you.

Why did you choose a catholic school if you’re not catholics? I do think it’s rude if he’s giving his atheist views all the time if he’s in a catholic school. He doesn’t have to agree but should keep quiet, if it wasn’t a state school discussion is ok but not if you’re in a known catholic school.

Some teachers are just not cut out to be teachers or are very old school. He’s got less than a year left if just suck it up to be honest. If a few are messing about in class she’s wrong to tarnish them all with the same brush. If your son isn’t doing anything wrong then she’s not going to be able to write a bad reference for him. Just tell him to get his head down and work hard for the time he’s got left, if he’s settled and has friends moving school for the last few months isn’t worth the stress.

We were assigned to this school because it was an in-year transition, as my post shows. Also, don't you know that most Catholic schools accept non-religious kids? Moreover, his teacher isn't Catholic either.
Nevertheless, all this is quite irrelevant.

I would request a 1:1 meeting with the Year 6 teacher and ask something neutral like ‘My son is coming home very upset from school, and is starting not to want to come in, and I wondered if we could work together to find out what’s going on and to put things back on the right track?’

Now it may be that the teacher becomes defensive, or may deny everything. It may be that you get some insights into his behaviour that you can then challenge him about. Or it could be that you get evidence of a teacher beyond their tether, wrestling with class behaviour or demands from the new leadership that are nothing to do with your son. Or you may find there are some strategies you could come up with together with the teacher that do improve the situation.

If this meeting with the teacher doesn’t resolve things or indicates that there is a real issue with this specific teacher, then that is the moment to book a meeting with the head, and again ask how the situation can be resolved.

Throughout, an open tone and fully acknowledging and owning the fact that your son’s behaviour may be a problem, and showing that you are willing to support the school in changing that behaviour, will go a LONG way.

It’s good that you aren’t going to “ demand disciplinary action against the teacher “ as none of what your son has reported would warrant that.

Y6 is an important year and SLT usually choose an experienced teacher with an ability to manage challenging behaviour whilst promoting social and academic progress.

As the oldest children in school , it can be difficult to get the balance right in Y6. A teacher may start off the academic year establishing ground rules and expectations and then ease off later.
There’s often a degree of humour or sarcasm from Y6 staff which is good preparation for secondary school.
Some of the comments reported may have been in response to pupils remarks.

He will need to build resilience before secondary school.

@cantkeepawayforever
This sounds like a very well-thought-through approach. Thank you so much.
Do you think we should wait until the admission/reference period is over ot it’s better tty to resolve it ASAP?

@24Dogcuddler
The Teacher is new to the school, too. So, there is a situation with a new headteacher, a new teacher, and a somewhat sensitive, very academic child who has never heard a teacher shout at kids.
With all this, I hate thinking that the only thing he is learning now is to hate school and teachers. I value education too much to agree that this is the way.

Hmmmm….. that sounds bad judging by your DS’s change in behaviour. I would take it seriously.

Yes you probably should speak to the teacher to hear their side. I would speak to as many other parents as possible too to see if their DCs are having any issues with this teacher - that way you can find out if it is a general issue with the teacher or something like a personality clash (but I suspect the former).

At the same age, I had a terrible teacher. She was psychotic bully - and I do mean that quite literally. I was very well behaved, intelligent and conscientious and her behaviour affected me badly for several years and possibly for life. She once gave me a lunch
time detention because the fact that I (according to
her) smirked when she asked the class who had done a (very minor) naughty thing was proof that I had done it and had also told others to do it too (I hadn’t). I was absolutely seething with anger the whole lunchtime about the injustice and was sobbing uncontrollably - which didn’t bother her in the slightest and in fact she probably enjoyed it.

I almost had a breakdown in year 8 because this experience made me incredibly scared of having new teachers. I had this terrible fear that I had to impress each new teacher otherwise they would maltreat me. In year 7, I was fine because due to a huge coincidence, I actually already knew most of my teachers even though I was in a new school. In year 8, however, I did not know a single one, so the pressure on me went through the roof and I could not take it. Luckily, one of these new teachers realised i had a major problem. I don’t think she knew what it was but she took me under her wing and kept an eye on me and that was enough to head off disaster. However, I did continue to have problems with this. I think it really affected my self esteem for the rest of my life and made me me very insecure among new people.

Looking back in it, I needed to be removed from
that teacher - as did the of the class.

incidentally, the secondary school was catholic and I am atheist. I was very happy there.

@dizzydizzydizzy Thanks for sharing this. Changing many schools in my childhood due to moving, I unfortunately understand the fear of a new school and teachers very well, too.
I completely agree that it must be addressed and looking for the best possible way to do it.

to be honest, you very likely need to move your child. Ideally to a different class in the same school. But obviously that is a big step so speak to the teacher first. It could be that they ar actually lovely and your DS is misunderstanding something about what they are saying or doing and once you have explained things to the teacher they will be abe to
reassure your son. Good teachers are always very happy to work with parents.

It’s tricky. The teacher is unlikely to change her style and you have to tread carefully as she will have some influence with the reference. What is the other teacher like (is it two form entry)? Does your DC want to move classes? From similar threads - and I don’t know how this translates into real life - it’s normally the child/children who are told to build their resilience, rather than the adults being told to hold back on being abusive.

@Drazzzamba
Sorry I didn’t realise that the teacher was new. I got that your son is academic but didn’t realise he was sensitive. He sounded confident re the challenging religion etc.
I’d speak to the Head after half term about your concerns if things haven’t settled to work on a solution. You might not be the only one with concerns.

@Anotherbrewpls You've put it so clear in your last sentence - I have the same feeling of the UK school system.
There are two more Year 6 teachers, and he likes them as they sometimes have carousel classes, where teachers swap.

year 6 is sats year in uk primaries.

there is often much more of an academic focus and some children find it quite high pressure. Others find it boring because they do focus heavily on English and maths and a very academically capable dc can get bored.

there is also a focus on transition to secondary which often means homework is set routinely and expected to be done with consequences for not doing (not usually the case lower down in primary) plus eg keeping in at break for bad behaviour.

because of this, year 6 is usually a strong experienced teacher.

I’d suggest asking for a meeting and stating calmly that dc is getting upset and you are worried.

if he’s kicking back at homework/kept in break etc then some explanation may be helpful

Oh, and the teacher saying she will write bad references for badly behaved dc - yes, she probably will. School references are generally pretty honest and if dc are badly behaved school will say so,

many dc do not really realise this and some are capable of having better.

keeping badly behaved dc in at break is reasonably standard, and in secondary badly behaved dc will get lunchtime/after school detentions. Keeping in at break is a relatively easy way of showing dc that their behaviour is not acceptable and a relatively low stakes way of bridging the gap to secondary. Some dc are capable of getting the message.

Sometimes there are personality clashes between teachers and pupils. Maybe this teacher is stricter than the teachers he has had before and this is not suiting him.

I agree with PP, ask for a meeting to hear the teachers views, then go from there.

The new year 6 teacher will be observed by her colleagues and you may find a change in her approach after half term. Do you have a parents evening coming up? Don’t worry too much about the reference for the private secondary school, the private schools take them with a pinch of salt and know parents are sometimes charged by the primary school for them to be written. Focus on the other entrance exams and ask your ds to keep a low profile in the classroom for the second half of this term. Once you know what school he is moving to in Sept 27 (in March 27) you may find he calms down and currently all the external options are causing some of his behaviour at school.

"From similar threads - and I don’t know how this translates into real life - it’s normally the child/children who are told to build their resilience, rather than the adults being told to hold back on being abusive."

My bold

What an astonishing claim for you - and OP who apparently agrees with you even though she's new to the UK system - to make about teachers in the UK, despite not knowing "how this translates into real life"

The reference is an irrelevancy, unless you’re talking about private schools. State schools cannot pick and choose their students (unless they’re selective - and even then it’s an objective test). Your son gets a bad reference for secondary - meh. Most of the teachers won’t even read it (as far as I’m aware it’s normally only the form tutor who’ll see it - teachers who may have 2 or 3 Y7 classes can’t check out all the primary school references).

As an ex-primary teacher, it definitely sounds to me like a teacher at the end of their tether.

Year 6 is a bit of a rubbish year for most children as the curriculum really narrows and all the focus is on dragging the kids through SATS with the highest score possible.
Lots of children in the class will be bored and stressed and the teacher may feel they need to be super strict and shouty to control behaviour.

I would definitely start with having a meeting with the class teacher and taking the approach that - DS is worried/upset about being in trouble at school, are there behaviour problems, how can you work together to improve things?
And if that doesn't work, then speak to the Head about switching class.

The OP says they are looking at selective and private in her first post.

@GeorgeMichaelsCat Will do, thank you

Whoops - completely missed that.

But don’t worry about the reference for state grammars, anyway. This would only be an issue in the event of an appeal.

@maggisimpson I completely agree, the teacher might be very stressed and pushes to get better results from the class she doesn't believe will perform well, while he is bored and has nothing to challenge him. It must be annoying for both sides.

@Matildatoldsuchdreadfullies
yes, we don't need the school's reference for state grammars - as far as we know, he luckily did well in all his tests so far and the appeal will not require.
Also, independent schools are our backup plan, so we don't worry about the references that much. I'm mostly concerned about his emotional well-being and experience for another 8 months.

What your son is reporting is concerning. You do need to raise it with the school and urgently.
Look at the school policies to see if any of those cover the issues you are facing. If so, follow that. If not, contact the school.
I would potentially ask the head for a meeting with you and the teacher about what your son has raised. See what is said/suggested/proposed to resolve the situation. Do not allow yourself to be fobbed off. Propose he is moved to a different class.
If you are not happy about the resolution, follow the school complaints policy.
You never know, other parents may have complained as well.
We had a horrendous year 6 teacher for my DD and the head was involved at every stage. We have removed my DS from the school, to prevent him being in the same class. We are filing a formal complaint now both children are out of the school.