Would moving school help after a difficult start in reception?

[greenanddamp]

I feel like ds(5) hasn’t made a hugely positive start to reception. I’ve been called in today over poor behaviour but I know they only bring parents in if it’s bad - that is to say I think there’s a lot of low level stuff going on.

I have really tried to address it with ds but it’s hard as I’m not there and I get these long rambling responses that make little sense. However, some behaviour is totally new and quite upsetting for me. It does seem to be that he’s palled up with a couple of other boys, can’t stay away from them (and likewise) and together it’s just a really awful combination.

It’s a one form entry and mixed reception / Y1.

I was really upset after school today as I’m just mortified at his behaviour and honestly am inclined to think a fresh start might be best. What does everyone think?

He’s in reception. He won’t understand most of the consequences he’ll get in school. There’s no dojos at home so why would it matter? It won’t mean much or anything. Consequences at home are where you can act to reinforce good or bad behaviour. You can’t have a particularly rational conversation with a 5 year old that they will absorb and act upon. As PPs have said, you need to tackle this at home. You wouldn’t let him get away with certain behaviours at home, so equally teach him that he cannot act similarly at school. This is around the time that consequences from school should be applied at home and given the reason why. Sticker chart with daily praise or appropriate consequence that his mind can process and understand. If you don’t support school at this age you’re going to allow bigger consequences to come down on him there. Nip it in the bud while he’s so little. A five year old can have negative behaviour pointed out with appropriate consequences (even just no sticker) and positive behaviour or even feeling remorseful and upset reinforced. He’s so little it’s still on you to lead the way here. No point changing schools if you haven’t done your part to support, it could very likely just happen all over again. You can’t control other kids influencing but you can take full control of your sons behaviour and guide him appropriately.

Moving schools is an absolute nuclear option. The last thing I’m doing is minimising it (some would possibly say I’m overreacting) but we have to be sensible and acknowledge that no pudding for poor behaviour or no screen time is not helpful. I’d appreciate it if the thread could stay on topic; I’ve noted your view that a change of school is not needed but consequences are and I disagree.

We'll agree to disagree then because I can't believe anyone would move school over trying some sort of home consequences. When this happens again at another school, will you move again? Running away from an issue doesn't solve it.

Personally I would move him, because I think a small school of 60 may not be well suited to him. It sounds like he'd benefit from a larger pool of pupils to choose his friends from.

Is he going to be in the same mixed class next year or will some of the year ones be elsewhere?

I wouldn’t move schools. He will just find silly friends in his new school. Year one will be different as there is more structured learning time. Less time for mud.

You are aware of what’s happening and you are willing to support the school so that's half the battle.

I do supply teaching and I’ve just been to a year one class that I haven’t seen for a year which contains the silliest twin boys I’ve even known and I was thinking ‘where are those boys’ when I was doing the registrar and they were just there, sitting like everyone else. A year ago one would have been boosting the other into the water tray. They have just grown up a bit.

When my DS went through a period like this, at break and lunchtime he had to stand with the dinner lady on the playground rather than play with his mates. I felt terrible about it, but it absolutely worked and didn’t take long before he joined back playing with everyone else. What have the school said?

@Happytaytos what you don’t seem to be understanding is that over the course of reception things have sometimes come to light several weeks later. There are a lot of ‘minor’ (I’m putting that in inverted commas because the school don’t tell me, not because I think it is minor) things related to not listening, not following instructions after several repeated times, silliness.

For all you seem fixated on removing his limited screen time I don’t think it would be sensible to punish him several weeks later.

So with the ‘big’ events I do hear about (the physical altercation and the one today) they are so bad that in all honesty it would be minimising them with an arbitrary ‘consequence’. FWIW he is missing a party on Saturday so that’s his consequence for yesterday. I didn’t go into that because it isn’t what my thread is about.

The point here is that the social sort of structure of the school does mean it is nigh on impossible for ds to avoid certain people. Some children struggle to put the brakes on and ds definitely does. He gets overexcited easily and struggles to return to a calmer state. If he’s with other children with those tendencies those friendships are very powerful. And one of those children is physical and lashes out and the other says some pretty awful things. Together they really are a problem as they egg one another on and also aren’t especially kind or supportive to one another.

So my question is - do I leave it, try to punish ds for behaviour at school and know (because we do know our own children) that all that will ultimately do is strain our relationship and he’ll go back into school the next day and won’t be able to stay away from the others and they just bring out the very worst in one another.

I feel absolutely powerless as it’s happening away from me and ds will agree he needs to stay away from x and y but just can’t.

Well, arrange a visit to the bigger school (get on with it - you've only got a month), first establishing that there's a reasonable change they'd have a Y1 place (you may need to ring the LA and should look at the in year applications information on their website in any case).

No point stressing about a school change till you've established it's possible and suitable.

Put secondary out of your mind for the moment.

A good book is 10 Days to a Less Defiant Child (Jeffrey Bernstein).

Why do you think removing screen time can't work? I Or whatever else it is that he likes to do when he gets home from school? I think it can work as it will make him think about how he is behaving more. I would tell him that that is going to be the consequence for behaviours like trying to get mud in children's faces as that isn't kind.
Moving schools is drastic and is taking away the responsibility from your son. You seem to believe that he's only going along with other specific children and couldn't possibly behave like that of his own accord - unfortunately, he probably could and probably will elsewhere!
Also I do think you are jumping the gun thinking about his behaviour at secondary - they can change a lot when they mature, which can happen quite quickly.

@Phineyj schools are struggling to fill places here so I’m not worried there isn’t space for him. I have arranged to look at one school already and I’ll contact some more today.

My main concerns are that it may be the same thing happens again (I am worried about him generally really) and also that there is a different feeder secondary to the other, larger schools.

I just wish we could stretch to private for him but it’s too much of a stretch for two of them.

I’m not thinking about his behaviour at secondary. It’s that we have two large secondaries and the school he’s currently at is a feeder school for one and the other larger primaries are feeder schools for the other. I’d prefer him to go to the former. But I do think we’ll have to think about independent schools for secondary anyway.

I think this sounds much better for an impulsive 5yo than something at home hours later. And it is much more linked to behaviour: can't play nicely = don't get to play. So much better than: can't play nicely = 6 hours later no sweets after tea.

This really is mainly up to the school to solve, so maybe go back to them and ask what they are doing about it, and suggest for example:

• restricted playtimes,
• the boys not to play together,
• separate areas of playground
• staying with a teacher
• catch him playing nicely and heap with praise
• stickers for playing well

You can then back up at home with discussions about good choices and why the school is putting in strategies to support him in making those choices.

Just checking when you say 'feeder school' do you mean officially linked primary schools who have priority admission, or just 'kids from this primary tend to go to that secondary'.

Thanks @TeenToTwenties . I guess the problem is that relies on them doing something wrong. A lot of the time they all do something, then they tell tales on DS and he gets into trouble. Or so DS says, which is very likely not accurate! But I have witnessed them all together and I’ve seen one of them go for ds very aggressively and I’ve heard the other say some pretty awful things which I then hear Ds say.

And yes it’s ’kids from this primary tend to go to this secondary’ but it’s pretty much all of them. I just don’t want him attending a school with children for seven years and forming strong friendships and then wrenching him away from that.

Honestly, I think you are jumping the gun here. Go to the meeting. Be open minded. Find out what the teachers think is happening, what the are going to do about it at school and what they want you to do at home.

Is he young in the year?

Did he go to preschool - were there problems there?

I really really wouldn't be fussing about secondary school friends at this point. Good friends can stay that way even if at different schools. The in favour schools might change in 6 years. Friendships often break in y7.

Try hard to resolve issues at current school, if you don't get anywhere then move schools.

We don’t have a meeting @HogletPatricia . I met with the teacher yesterday but I can’t say I was reassured; the opposite really.

No issues at nursery, he was happy and settled. He’s not young in the year either.

I think that it might be easier to separate him from other silly children at a larger school but there will be children like that in any school you send him too, including in private. While he’s behaving like he is, the only children who are going to tolerate playing with him are other children who are being silly,
especially as he gets a bit older. So if you move him to a new school now and nothing changes, nothing changes and the same pattern of gravitating towards the silly kids will continue.
I strongly disagree that his behaviour at home and school are separate. If school aren’t telling you everything straight away then you need to ask. You appear to be quite passive about what’s happening at school and dismissing his behaviour there as out of his or your control. It’s not. He’s old enough to make a choice about how he behaves. He’s old enough to remember something he did a few hours ago. So you absolutely can speak to him or remove privileges at home for something that happened at lunchtime that day. At the moment it sounds like he gets in trouble at school then comes home and everything carries on like normal with treats and screen time and mum saying he couldn’t help but splash mud in the other kids faces. Why would he change?
I have three ds who are all older than yours now. Two of the three had a tendency towards daft impulsive behaviour when they were little. Some kids might grow out of it, but mine definitely needed me to very clearly explain things to them - how their behaviour was making other people feel/how important school rules are for keeping everybody safe/showing respect for other people’s belongings/how their behaviour was their responsibility regardless of what other people are choosing to do etc.
Why not set up a sticker chart like PP have suggested, but make a plan for the teacher to let you know how he’s been every day and base it on that? It’s not a punishment for bad behaviour its positive reinforcement for making good choices and shows that you and school are talking to each other and are one united force as far as his behaviour concerned.
Even if you plan to move him in summer I would lay the foundations for good behaviour expectations now, so he truly gets a fresh start at his new school.

id focus on ways to channel his energy - a run around the park before school. Sporty clubs afterwards. Make sure he’s eating more protein at breakfast so he doesn’t get hangry at school. Limit screens so he isn’t getting dopamine spikes a then craving them at school. It might all help calm
things down

I agree a punishment or sticker chart isn’t really the way to help him - it’s too after the event

I’m not saying they are separate. I’m saying I’m not going to take TV away for silly behaviour I find out about five weeks later. Consequence for yesterdays behaviour is no party on Saturday, which is essentially because I have no confidence he won’t behave like an idiot.

But the thing is he is a different child sometimes and can play so nicely and calmly and be a considerate and kind friend. He is full of energy and zest for life. But he isn’t always silly, it’s just in some situations.

I am feeling bad enough to be honest. Obviously I’m blaming myself but sitting here ruminating on what a shit job I’ve done isn’t helping. I need to work out what to do going forwards and i know missing that party won’t make the slightest bit of difference because i really do know my child.

I agree. Also, send in your own fruit for snack if you are allowed so there’s a higher chance of him eating it. Make sure you are praising his good choices at school. He needs to know that you know what’s going on in that classroom and that you are interested. Mrs Smith says you built a really tall tower today with Bob, that’s great.

Are you getting feedback every day? If not it might be worth asking if the teacher can do that at home time in a quick ‘how was today?’ way in front of your ds.

Thank you. I agree. He’s also been sanctioned at school (as he absolutely should be) and I’m not sure how comfortable I feel about continuing to sanction him well into the evening. That just builds resentment and strains our relationship.

He has a lot of physical activity. Maybe too much I wonder sometimes. Not sure. I don’t get daily feedback. One of the issues with it being a small school is they’ve had a bit of turbulence lately with staffing and so lots of supply etc, they’ve been very good but it does mean it’s been a bit unsettling.

I wish I knew what to do. He’s generally OK when not in school, it really is the combination of these children that seems to set him off.

If you've heard nothing about his behaviour for 5 weeks and then had a meeting, that's not great from the school.

You need a 2 line daily check in if possible on the door, then home consequences will work.

I do agree that home consequences 5 weeks later are a waste of time. I hadn't realised the time line, I thought you were getting daily feedback.