What ratio of adults:children would you be comfortable with for a reception school trip?

[KLRJ]

Going to preface this by saying this will be my eldests first ever school trip, therefore also the first time for me sending one of my children on a trip, so please be kind.

What ratio of adults to children would you be comfortable with when sending your 4/5 year old child on a school trip to a children's science museum, 45 minutes away by coach in a middle of a city location?

Friends with children at other local schools have advised me their school trips have allowed parents as volunteers to allow the ratio to be 1 adult to 3 or 4 children. My child's school has refused volunteers (a few of us have asked) and I've just asked my child's teacher what the ratio will be for their trip and they've said 1 adult to 6 children (which she was keen to highlight is the legal requirement).

My child is under assessment for autism/adhd and can be quite a flight risk when out and about with me (and certainly would be a huge flight risk at a children's museum with a multitude of distractions). She masks exceptionally well at school, so despite me highlighting her struggles, she very often gets overlooked and so the idea of her being on a trip with a ratio of 1:6 doesn't sit well with me.

I'm not an overly anxious person, but this will be my first time sending my first baby off on a school trip, so I'm just looking for some opinions from other parents with children the same age to see if I'm being unreasonable in worrying about this or not.

Thank you for this, it's reassuring to know your son behaved that way on trips and I hope it'll be the same for my daughter! I know by the time I'm sending my third baby I probably won't think twice about it, but the combination of it being the first time sending one of my babies on a school trip and it being the one most prone to chaos it feels so much harder!

When DS’s school asked for parent volunteers they would normally ask from a pool of known volunteers to start with. So parents who already came in to help with reading, class projects, sports trips etc. So would already have a DBS, were familiar to the DC, knew the drill (no going off for a smoke or turn up with alcohol with their packed lunch, both of which had happened in the past!), knew their DC wouldn’t play up with them around, were happy to be helping a group of pupils that didn’t include their DC etc.

Ahh so sorry, I missed that it wasn't your first reply! No they've not been anywhere before, this will be the first time she's left the school grounds without me. Her preschool never did trips either so this is all new!

Thank you for this, the point about it being career ending for teachers is something went wrong is definitely added a perspective I hadn't considered! I also hadn't considered that some parents may be quite that unhelpful so thank you for mentioning that too. I will raise my concerns about her being a flight risk and see what they say, hopefully they'll set my mind at ease

Ohh I absolutely wouldn't be planning on going and taking my younger children! I'd struggle taking just my three kids alone to this place, let alone then having other 4/5 year olds to look after too! 🙈 I totally agree with not wanting my daughter to miss out, I never want to be that sort of parent and her getting to enjoy new experiences is far more important to me than my worries, I was just finding it hard to rationalise if I was being overly anxious. Thank you so much for your reply and for understanding where I was coming from, definitely planning on speaking to the school as you suggested 😊

I know you're probably right, it's just hard to do this knowing what I know of her. The amount of times I've had to catch her by her arm/hood to stop her running into the path of a car or had to chase her down when she's done a runner after being distracted by something as simple as a stick or a feather or a stone 🫠

Thank you so much for this extra info, it's really good to know 😊

Although I was so negative about parent helpers above, in fairness I would like to say that the vast majority are genuinely helpful. Although I have seen the things I mentioned (with the example of the clip around the ear which I was told about, and didn’t see), the majority are very careful, supportive, and just plain good.

The most common issue is having to stop parents taking photos on their phone. And that just needs a simple reminder.

Haven’t read all responses yet so apologies if I’m repeating what others have said

Most schools will partner children up, so any that are tricky might be paired with a more sensible child etc but they are very good at telling on each other at that age so I would expect a ‘Miss ‘KLRJDaughter’ isn’t holding my hand/running away’ etc

As a member of staff you have eyes everywhere, even more so than with your own children because you know how your own children will act whilst out and about,
staff are constantly counting heads all day, not just when they go on and off the coach.
The staff that are going will likely be experienced and often they will take staff from other year groups (in place of parent volunteers)

I would also say that taking a baby, a toddler and a five year old on your own is very different to an organised school trip.
The children will be shepherded on and off the coach and into the museum. It is highly unlikely they will be walking around the museum with the general public. They will probably be in a specific area/classroom with museum staff running a specific activity.

1:6 is fine, but if your daughter is a flight risk then she needs to be taken out if ratio and given 1:1. I think not having parent volunteers is a good call, just because someone is parent doesn’t necessarily mean that they should be around children.

I think.the fact that your DD presents no problems to staff in the school setting is reassuring as she is likely to treat the trip in the same way.
I understand the masking issue and your worries but she does need to go and not be singled out to stay at home.
You have 3 children and these milestones which feel a bit risky are going to be repeated a lot over the years.
I think.you need to bite the bullet on this one.
You will get more resilient about risk as the years pass!
My 3 have done lots of things thst gave me a headache over the years, but I did feel it was important thst they were able to join in. This is the first step on the way to letting go ....bit is not always easy.

1:6 would generally be fine, but there should be additional staff to suport SEN needs. I have 2 autistic kids, one is in a sen unit, when they go out it's around 3:1. My other is in mainstream but always has her 1:1 with her on trips. Perhaps that's what's happening at your friend's schools, their seeing 6 adults with a class, so assume it's 5:1, but actually most kids are 6:1, with a 1:1 (Obviously the 1:1 would still st,ep in if one of the other kids was doing something dangerous, but aren't primarily their for them)

They both have EHCP's though, which makes a difference.

My recollection of primary school trips is that kids go into “school mode”, despite not being on school premises. Both my kids, when out with me, hated queuing, had no interest in “spot the xyz” worksheets, were very picky about what we did and where we went etc. I remember wondering how the hell they’d survive school trips, with all the rigidity and organisation. DS2 in particular was an absolute nightmare for running off. I used to have to dress him in bright colours and watch him constantly.

But seemingly they both slipped into school mode on trips, and behaved as they did in class - staying where they were told, not wandering off, following the rules, and even enjoying it!

OP I think you’ll be pleasantly surprised at how much more complaint your daughter is with teachers than she is with you!

One word of caution - if you express significant concerns to school, they may say they can’t accommodate your daughter’s needs, and refuse to allow her to come. I’ve heard of this happening to someone I know.

Does your daughter have a diagnosis? Does she have an EHCP? Don’t be put off by them saying she doesn’t need one - request an assessment from the LA.

But in my experience of Chaperoning school trips, you are constantly counting your 6, on one I stuck close to the class teacher as our groups between them had all the blond boys in the class - so even if they confused us by hanging with a friend in the other group we’d have spotted one missing.
In fact if worried putting a bow in her hair might help make her distinctive. But my kids infant school used to put them in distinctive baseball caps, which did help spot them quickly.

Ex school governor here. Parents are often a nuisance on trips like this. I'm sure you wouldn't be.

It's brilliant that you want them to go on the trip, these trips are great for development, learning that there's a whole world out there.

This is interesting, we've not yet been given the opportunity to be involved in any of the ways you've mentioned there, but hopefully that might change in the future!

These are all very reassuring points, thank you so much 😊

The ratio for taking Rainbows (who are the same age group) on trips is 1:5.

And as mentioned by pp the adults will be constantly counting the children they're looking after. It won't just be a blase head count back on the coach at the end. They are professionals - and highly regulated ones at that.

I do think you're underestimating the school staff and overestimating the usefulness of parent helpers (who generally just wanted a free/discounted trip with their own child and won't have the experience of the school staff in managing groups of children).

I'm not actually sure about if they'll be in with the general public or off doing designated activities so I'll ask her teacher about these because it would definitely set my mind at ease if it was just specific activities!

I'd like to hope she'll treat the trip the same way. If I knew that for certain I'd probably feel much better about it all. It's the fact her teachers don't see (and sometimes make me feel as if they don't believe) the way she is outside school. You're absolutely right, the first time anxiety isn't helping this situation!

In my experience it's quite unusual to take kids that age to just wander around a museum. It's typically a specific activity linked to a topic they are covering at school. It's facilitated by museum staff who are experienced in running activities for kids.

At that age there will usually be an area where the pupils go for chat/activities with museum staff and then some time for going round specific parts of the museum. I would be surprised if the whole time is spent going round the exhibits

At our school trips are offered the governors first, some of which are parents.

On a trip like this they will be limited to the number of seats on the coach too so can't open it up to dozens of parents!

I still have awful memories of helping out one summer when my daughter was at primary school. We went to a zoo/wildlife park. However I reckon a dozen or more other schools had had the same idea that weekend. While not all the little girls were wearing red and white checked uniform dresses I'd estimate there were about 3 other groups that were.
On the way home we had a long stop in a layby while someone was being sick...
the coach driver!