What ratio of adults:children would you be comfortable with for a reception school trip?

[KLRJ]

Going to preface this by saying this will be my eldests first ever school trip, therefore also the first time for me sending one of my children on a trip, so please be kind.

What ratio of adults to children would you be comfortable with when sending your 4/5 year old child on a school trip to a children's science museum, 45 minutes away by coach in a middle of a city location?

Friends with children at other local schools have advised me their school trips have allowed parents as volunteers to allow the ratio to be 1 adult to 3 or 4 children. My child's school has refused volunteers (a few of us have asked) and I've just asked my child's teacher what the ratio will be for their trip and they've said 1 adult to 6 children (which she was keen to highlight is the legal requirement).

My child is under assessment for autism/adhd and can be quite a flight risk when out and about with me (and certainly would be a huge flight risk at a children's museum with a multitude of distractions). She masks exceptionally well at school, so despite me highlighting her struggles, she very often gets overlooked and so the idea of her being on a trip with a ratio of 1:6 doesn't sit well with me.

I'm not an overly anxious person, but this will be my first time sending my first baby off on a school trip, so I'm just looking for some opinions from other parents with children the same age to see if I'm being unreasonable in worrying about this or not.

The teacher will have done a risk assessment. There should be a space on the RA to flag up individual children. If you think your daughter is a flight risk then just check with the teacher that she is named on the RA and ask what measures are in place to support her. If it were my RA I would ensure that she is with the adult that she responds to best (so her own class teacher/TA).
1:6 is a good ratio, esp considering that the children are getting the coach there. I've had 1:6 for a Y1 day trip, and it was fine. It involved travel on rush hour tube including changing lines deep underground in a group of 100 children (2 year groups). A coach trip is pretty chilled in comparison.
As a teacher managing trips I would have been thrilled to have the school provide enough staff to support us. We were reliant on parents, some of whom were absolutely fantastic, some of whom needed more managing than the kids themselves.

Without the flight risk for your Dd, I would say 1:6 is just about ok on a coach & museum trip as they contained (not like a zoo or beach) but as you have highlighted her flight risk I'd expect her to be with an experienced adult & fewer kids or those who are quiet/sensible/buddible.

if they seem to be ignoring your concerns I'd be that parent & refuse to allow her to go, IF you think she wouldn't 'mask' and would run off. But as she is 'masking' so much at school do you really think she would run off?

Thank you for your reply, I do appreciate they think they know the pupils after nearly a year at school, but unfortunately for me in so many way (ND assessment mostly but also this situation), they have no idea the true nature of my daughter because of how well she masks at school. They didn't mention any additional ratios for the tricky characters, and honestly with my daughter having been accepted onto the ND pathway I feel like if this was something that they had done, then it should have been something they've done for her too. I don't know, this is all very new to me and hard to get my head around.

I think it's probably easier to rationalise these things when you've been allowed to chaperone a school trip previously and therefore have had the opportunity to see the checks they do, how the trips operate etc. Having not had that opportunity, this is all theoretical to me and I have to put complete trust in them not having seen any of the process myself.

If she masks in a school environment is she necessarily going to be a flight risk for them?

I would mention the flight risk but I think 1:6 is probably fine.

That's interesting as DS is in Y2 and for a recent museum trip they did ask for parent volunteers, for DS' class there was the teacher the two class TAs a floating HLSA who gets roped in for this kind of thing and three parents, so 7 adults for 28 6/7 year olds , albeit one of the parents was there as a 121 for her son who spends most of his time in the SEND unit and the HLTA was there for 2 boys who are runners and also have additional needs so if you take out those 2 adults and the 3 children it was 5 adults 25 children but much older than reception. It was a coach trip that dropped us off outside and it was a relatively small museum not the NHM etc.

DS' school does seem well resourced though he has a class teacher and two full time TAs in his class, one is a SEND specialist but the children with the most significant needs aren't in the mainstream classes anyway they are in another unit and just join with their 121 for a few lessons such as PE.

Thank you for your reply 😊 I can understand how parent chaperones may be difficult and honestly I think my presence there would potentially make the trip more risky for my daughter as she would be more likely to 'unmask'. I can see your point about how some parents may pay more attention to their child too so that's a good point I need to consider.

I think you've highlighted well there that my difficulty and probably why this is bothering me so much is because the school don't see evidence of how my daughter really is and see a completely different child to the one I do

I dont see how allowing random parents allowed with children is safer, i dont have an amount i just figured the teachers had done it all before so know what they are doing and trust their judgement

Do you mean harder for themselves as in allowing parents to help would make it harder? I'm not sure if they've done it before or not but I would guess they probably have. Every cohort is different though so just because it's worked well in the past, doesn't mean it always will!

You may also find that your daughter is less likely to do a runner if she’s under the supervision of school teachers, especially as you say she’s a dream student at school. My son was a little sod pretty much wherever we went , racing off left right and centre! but in school ( including trips) he was an angel.
You’re not unreasonable to worry, we definitely had anxiety over those early school trips, but we had an amazing school that supported and reassured us. I would email school and ask to see their risk assessment, that might help put your mind at ease.

@KLRJ as I stated before parent helpers can sometimes be a hindrance. If some museum staff will be involved then there will be more than enough adults involved.

The school will know the cohort and how they interact together. Have they never been on a school trip before, somewhere local, so walking distance? Local church, park etc?

Truly, it's difficult to believe how unhelpful some parents are. From pulling out a vape, to swearing, to being glued to their phone... I won't even mention the parent who decides to give a clip around the ear.

If your daughter masks at school, I'd lay money on her masking on the trip.

Yes, raise the flight risk. But honestly, staff will be on it. They count heads non-stop. I would literally wake up, still counting heads, after a trip. Their risk assessment will be very detailed.

It's also worth remembering that teachers nearly always care about the children in their charge. But it would be career ending to lose a child, so on a purely pragmatic basis they will be obsessively careful.

I wish I knew the school's reasoning, it might make me feel more comfortable to know why. But some people on here have made some very good points for me to consider about parents not being the best at supervising other children vs teacher's. One of those situations where it feels a little bit like I can't win and there's no ideal situation, probably exacerbated by having a ND child but such is life!

Thank you, this is definitely something I will do. Would the school have advised me if my daughter had been named on the RA or is this something I'd have to ask for? Will definitely double check because I can imagine she won't have been!

I wondered this as well. I have 2 ND kids and I've learned that what they do in school often bears no relation to how they behave at home!

OP, schools are generally incredibly risk averse. They wouldn't attempt to take a class of Reception children on this trip if they hadn't planned for all eventualities. As pp have said, coach door-to-door is probably the safest way to transport the kids without losing any.

Thank you, I might ask if that's something they'd be able to do for her. I honestly don't know about the unmasking, it's hard to judge because I know the museum is full of very child appealing, interactive science exhibits that are exactly the sort of thing that would put her into flight risk mode when with me, but her fear of authority might override that at school. I just don't know and it feels like a big deal to risk it without knowing for sure

I’ve been a parent volunteer on many trips and they assigned me the kids who were unlikely to give me any issues. The school staff looked after the trickier kids which was obviously best for everyone.

I have a lot of experience of trips like this. One of the things to factor in, is that you would have to take younger children, and that increases the number of adults needed. You also would not be able to look after a bigger group, and if your dd just stays with you, she will miss out on the experience.
it’s understandable to be nervous, but honestly, children behave differently at school, ND or not.
Ask for her to be put with someone she knows well. School will have loads of experience of these trips, and she will be fine.

I'm very unsure on this as it will depend on if the interactive, child focused science exhibits override her fear of authority and social pressure, and until she's been in the situation I just don't know. She only turned 5 yesterday so she's still very young. From what I know of her, I wouldn't be comfortable taking her to this museum alone alongside her 2.5yr old brother and 5 month old sister (so a ratio of 1:3 with one strapped in a pushchair 😅), but like you say, she could be a totally different child for the school!

Just to add my bit - when i was a TA it was always 5 'easy' kids per TA or adult helper and children with extra needs would tend to be put with the teachers. Usually as part of a smaller than 5 group. One to one TAs were sometimes given an extra child (no extra needs) if the one to one needs were not extreme.

I echo what others have said and have a word about flight concerns.

Thank you for this, having other real world examples is really helpful because my sample size of friends and family is quite limited! This would be more in line with what I was expecting, 1:5 in year 2 seems much more reasonable than 1:6 in reception!

I do think you need to put some trust in them.
All reception age kids are a possible flight risk.
If she isn't a problem in school then you being there could create the problem

No, the school will not necessarily have informed you that she's named on the RA, so by all means ask. They won't be able to show you the doc, as it will have personal details of other children inc medical needs and teachers' phone numbers etc, but they can tell you what they've put in place for your child. And if they haven't put anything in place then obviously you can prompt them to.
I've never had a parent ask me about the RA, or what I've put in place for their child, but I would have welcomed the opportunity to discuss.

I have to say i always found it v stressful doing school trips. Especially in public places. And especially with yr 1 and 2s. I did Warwick Castle 3 times as a TA with yr 2s and each time just spent the whole day anxiously counting theses 5 heads next to me every 10 seconds !!!!! 1 2 3 4 5 1 2 3 4 5 1 2 3 4 5
I barely looked up.
I was still doing it in my sleep that night! 😳🤪

My ratio for taking Rainbows outside the unit is 1:5 but that includes 4yos who may not even be at school yet, so 1:6 for children who are all at school seems fine to me. That won’t include children who have a 1:1 either (or who have a parent attend as their 1:1, not just as a parent helper for the whole group).

I guess from my perspective, the risk of my daughter running off is far higher than the risk of one of the adults on the school trip being a dodgy individual or poor chaperone, however others here have highlighted poor chaperoning may not be as unlikely as I thought. For parents of other children who aren't ND/a flight risk I can totally see why people would think having random parents there is more of a risk