Why are teachers failing the narrative for boys, is boy playing incompatible with school

[Leteer]

Does anyone feel like boy play is deeply unsupported and thoroughly discouraged in school up to the point where boys are questioning if play is actually good / encourages boys to question if their hard wired need for play is a bad thing. Isn't this a downward spiral for boys to not support what nature gave them which could in turn affect academic work.

Oh good, another thing to blame schools for. Boys and girls need physical activity. They do not need rough and tumble. Has it occurred to you that when 'rough and tumble' inevitably results in injuries, the parents complain and accuse the school of negligence? And that there are lots of boys who are good at sitting still and don't like rough and tumble?

Also a lot of the reasons why boys 'need' more physical activity and 'your binman isn't a woman' are probably based on nurture rather than nature. There is lots of research about how adults project their gendered expectations onto tiny children and even babies, directing girls towards nice, calm, creative activities at toddler group, encouraging them to be quiet and nice etc. A loud, yelling baby boy 'Ha - he has a healthy set of lungs!' etc.
All kids should have more exercise, and shouldn't be sitting for hours without movement breaks. They should absolutely not be engaging in 'rough and tumble' in school though.

Disagree. Socialisation can only change what someone has in their imagination, it can't change the biological drive to have certain needs met.

Also your OP says 'teachers' are failing in this. Classroom teachers don't decide school policy. Heads and governing bodies do, often based on guidance that they are expected to follow.

Yes I tried to change the title of the post to school immediately after I posted but it wouldn't let me.

I agree - and possibly why so many kids get adhd diagnosis - that energy has to go somewhere. If you look at the animal kingdom, play fighting and rough and tumble is natural developmental stage - for boys and girls.

Evidence?
What does a baby 'have in its imagination'?
Of course behaviour/needs based on biological drive can be influenced by upbringing, socialisation etc. Otherwise there wouldn't be any women who didn't want to have babies.

That sounds like a rape culture excuse to me. What other biological urges should men and boys be allowed to fulfil?

It's also staggeringly incorrect, as numerous cross cultural studies show. And I can tell you that because I have spent a good part of my career developing programmes in school to unpick gendered socialisation. And we've got the receipts to show it works.

There was a nice BBC documentary on about 10 years ago called 'no more boys and girls' where a school on the Isle of Wight (famously poor educational outcomes) undertook this kind of work. It was incredibly successful and the children were all much happier.

Here’s the thing, for a huge amount of parents rough and tumble is fine and great, until it’s their kid that gets hurt. Then they want actions and consequences and to “sort it out”.

And where does that imagination come from?

There are nice boys in my 5 year old daughter’s class who play typically ‘boyish’ games but know how to behave towards the kids who don’t want to engage in those, and also a large contingent of ‘rough boys’ whose play is all about asserting dominance and their place in the pecking order. It is very tedious and bad manners - not something to be encouraged! My daughter tells me about a boy who roughly pushed her out of the line because he was so busy trying to jostle for position with his silly friend. No ‘sorry’ to her, she just gets shoved out the way for the boy egos. Funnily enough his mother was questioning the teacher why her son was being told off at school. Maybe teach him to behave? We wonder why boys grow up with so much entitlement 🤦‍♀️.

This was an utterly disgusting connection to make.
Children have biological needs without dismissing as a spiral towards rape culture. Vile.

So it is CHILDREN and not just boys , then?

Rough and tumble is banned in schools because children get hurt and parents complain.

I mean... honestly, what is that statement 'Socialisation can only change what's in your imagination' based on? Research? Anything remotely scientific?

Nonsense. School was originally for boys - girls weren’t even allowed to go to school.
And when girls did join - their schooling was less academic and probably more active. My grandmother did a lot more cooking, sewing etc in school than the boys. The boys had much more sitting and writing to do, the girls education was more hands on. And that’s in living memory.
Expectations of boys behaviour and consequences have deteriorated. It seems all of them do some sort of video gaming too when they should be at sports clubs or running off energy, cycling etc.

Of course girls do too, we are talking about the context of boys not performing well in schools like girls. The topic isn't about for example having a career and raising kids which is another topic but for woman / girls. This one is about boys in school.

Sounds like a bullshit precursor to ‘boys will be boys’. Pushing, fighting, throwing things, name calling etc is not ok and all kids need to learn to regulate their behaviour and not disrupt the learning of others.
Parents can facilitate this behaviour outside of school if they wish, offer sports,
play dates but it is totally unreasonable to criticise teachers for ‘not understanding’ their ‘needs’ and expecting them to allow disruptive behaviour that can make other children feel unsafe.

The stupid female head at my kids primary school banned handstands and cartwheels about seven years ago.

Football is fine. It's the kids who have awful football parents who get all het up about it.

@EwwPeople many sensible boys don’t like football either. i have two very sporty boys, both absolutely hate the toxic masculinity of rugby and football and as a consequence refuse both.
Schools just go down the path of least resistance and reduce pe to tbe bare minimum, and do the absolute minimal effort standards otherwise

I don't think it's suited to certain kinds of children irrespective of their sex. Girls who are ill suited to school are often thought of as tomboys, though.

You're seeing 2 different things. You're seeing that school is suited to a certain tyoe of personality and you're using the sex based stereotypes to categorise what is boy and girl play. The only reason girls are discouraged from playing that way anywhere is because of sexism. Not because no (normal) girl wants to.

I agree. My ds is at his happiest at judo. Absolutely nobody gets hurt. There are boys and girls - by the way some very strong and rough and tumble girls! - who take so much pleasure in being taken down to the ground and pinned. They play groups games at the end - very physical - and the leaders of the judo class are loud and have unquestioning control of the class.

I had to explain to ds initially that the judo teachers are shouting to ensure everyone listens right away, to keep people safe. They are not shouting because they are angry.

He had never heard someone raise their voice in authority! I was pretty shocked - I assumed the teachers would be loud at school, but I think it is all wishy washy - “let’s not intimidate the baby people”.

I want my child to understand he is NOT the boss, I want him to have physical play that is ultimately safe and doesn’t only consist of football.

Wow that's a new one!

The reason that rough and tumble often get banned is parents. It's all very well if you are the parent to say you don't mind your child falling over but other parents do.

Teachers know which parents are more protective and dread the conversation. It generally goes something like:

Teacher: Johnny fell over at playtime today. He was playing tag with Susan and Gary and Gary tagged Johnny a bit hard. Gary didn't mean to and did say sorry.

Parent: This is not acceptable. That Gary has done this before. Last year he was pushed my Johnny over playing tag. Gary is bullying my Johnny. What are you going to do to safeguard my little boy?

It is not fair for a child who is a little less coordinated or a little more excitable to be labelled a bully so teachers have to try and stop the game.

What do you want teachers to do?

I’m sorry but I find this a ridiculous thing to say. Not all boys are the same. Not all parents are the same. I’ve got boys in my class who give it out the cry the second things don’t go their way. I’ve got parents who believe their boy would never hurt another child when they do. I’ve got parents who have a kids will be kids attitude and don’t care if they play fight. Meanwhile I’ve got boys who are never physical with others. I’ve got girls who are physical with others etc. A class needs consistency. I can’t have rules for every individual depending on their preferences and their parents views.

I like all children to be active.
I like all children to challenge themselves.
I like children being outdoors to learn.
But hurting others just can’t be allowed.

I see this too often