Disagreement with teacher, what should I do next?

[Mama81]

Hi mumsnet,
My youngest is age 7, in year 3. He is academically bright. We have never had behaviour issues, either at home, clubs or previous school years. In his current class we are constantly being phoned/called in because my son doesnt listen/ignores teacher/will not co operate. This went on from September until Christmas.
As parents we work full time but we took him out of breakfast club and after school club to see if this helped (it did not)
Over the last 2 weeks things have got worse- he has hit another child (my son said this child pushed him) 'laughs' at the teacher when asked to do something, has spent 2 whole afternoons in the head teachers office and has not been allowed to play football.
I suspect he is copying other children's behaviours, but I'm obviously not in the class room, so I'm never going to know for certain.
We have both had many discussions with the teacher but are not getting anywhere, in fact it's getting worse. The teacher is insisting there are no triggers, patterns or copying other children.
What should I do next?

Check with him that there's nothing going on for him socially, that might be causing a desire to look cool or similar that you might be able to help with. Then, come down hard on him for the behaviour. Be on the side of the tracher.Explain that it is not acceptable. He may not like the teacher, he may not be suitably challenged, and explain you will talk to the teacher about it and try and improve it, but actually it's not ok to mess things up for other people, just because you don't like something.

Support the teacher by reinforcing to your son the importance of thinking of others feelings, never hurting them and listening to what the teacher says.
There is no need for any extra consequences at home - he should have had consequences at school at the time. Just keep reminding him to be kind to others.

Have you had his hearing and eyesight checked recently?

What did they try early on for punishment? Is there a second class for him to go to? If you really think he is copying others

Why do you call your thread ‘disagreement with the teacher’?

Do you disagree?

Behaviour is communication. Is he struggling? Has he found step up to year 3 hard? He is 7, he knows all of those behaviours are not ok. He is trying to tell you he isn't ok. Mine was much younger when the wheels came off but he just couldn't manage the expectations on him any longer.

Can he explain why he's behaving like this OP?

Have you actually spoken to your son about it?

He's old enough for a stern chat about behaviour and expectations. And explain the point of school, how he benefits from behaving and participating. And asking him direct why his behaviour has changed. And if he feels it has.

I've always treated school a team effort with my dcs.

He is bright. So talk to him. Ask him to explain it
Do role play he can act it out with you at home.

What have you actually done already? What sanctions has your child received at home? Why are you disagreeing with the teacher?

This is a multi faceted question. I’d start with the basics, eye and ear test. Then, is he monumentally bored? Not an excuse but worth finding out. Is the work too hard (see previous).
who is he sitting next to?
Are there times of day when he plays up or particular subjects. Test for any extra needs like dyslexia.
Most of all, look at what’s happening socially. Is someone bullying him or egging him on? Who’s watching at break? Who does he spend time with?
Apologies for the jumble of thoughts and all sympathy.

Sorry, why do you think he must be copying other children?
You really sound like you’re saying that your son isn’t the problem, can do no wrong and it’s everyone else’s fault.

What have you done to manage his behaviour, punishments, consequences, reinforcing good days with reward?
Have you even accepted that it’s actually his behaviour and him thats the issue?

He wants to be at home. I would stop after school club and allow him to relax

It can be difficult for a teacher to spot triggers or patterns when he/she is teaching the whole class. Is it possible for the SENCO or a senior leader to observe him in class? Something may be apparent to the trained eye.
Even keeping track of when certain behaviour occurs can help e.g. in a particular lesson, day or time of day. Is behaviour a problem if someone else leads a lesson?
The laughing can be a sign of nerves rather than disrespect if the teacher is particularly strict or more zero tolerance than he’s been used to.
Hope you manage to get to the bottom of it.

I’d be thinking of some sort of additional support need.

I suspect he is copying other children's behaviours, but I'm obviously not in the class room, so I'm never going to know for certain

No he isn't. He's playing up and the teacher is probably tearing their hair out. What have you done to address this with DS?

Is this not exactly what OP did?

You could stop blaming the other children and accept that this might just be your sons behaviour.

Then work with the teacher, challenge his behaviour and have consequences and rewards, he also might be either struggling or bored, you need to find the root of the behaviour and you can’t start doing that until you stop thinking it’s copying other children.

Sorry, haven't read previous posts but as a teacher, I would seriously consider whether he is under challenged. No fault on the school's part, but disruptive behaviour can be because a child needs much more challenging and are bored. You could ask this in a sensitive way. Hopefully the school will want to do everything to support.

Might not be right, but that's my two pennies. Good luck!

Y3 is a very typical year for new, challenging behaviours and also for academic children to struggle with actually having to work a bit at new concepts rather than absorbing them without much effort as on KS1 (eg lots of mathematical children can get through Y2 maths because they're good at jolting numbers in their head but then learning a method like short multiplication requires quite a lot of concentration).

It's also my experience that messing about is rarely copying other children.

This happened to a family friend and it turned out that the child was reacting to cinnamon in his diet. Might be worth thinking about dietary triggers.

I think boys get a testosterone surge between 7-8 somewhere! Could explain some of it.
Just keep telling him he has to behave at school and absolutely no hitting no rudeness. Mine pushed all boundaries for about 2 years.
If he’s had a rough day at school sometimes they need a nice evening and a little extra attention at home rather that another telling off which just makes them angry and frustrated.

Hi, you have misread or I have worded it poorly- I think there is a problem. I hudt think it's not as straight forward as the school is making it- that my child is suddenly 'naughty' and does not want to co operate.
There are no behaviours at home to manage.

Thankyou for your reply. I do love the school. I did think about this, but did not ask as my son is a summer baby so is one of the youngest and I dont want to come across as a pushy parent. I will revisit this though.

What's the 'disagreement' with the teacher? Your son's disagreement, or your's? You need to let go of this notion that he's copying others as you have no evidence of that. All you know is that, for some reason, he has become disruptive and rude this year. Unfortunately it can be a pretty tough cycle to break. Once they become the 'class clown' (if that is indeed what is happening), it can become a bit of a self-fulfilling prophecy. He needs to know this is unacceptable though, and that you've with the teacher on this one (as it comes across that you're more annoyed that the teacher keeps ringing you, rather than that your son keeps acting up). If he picks up on this vibe, that you feel it's the teacher who is the problem, things may never improve this year.

You need a frank chat with your son to get to the bottom of it. I'd say it's likely one of 3 things. Either he's bored, struggling, or there's a personality clash with this teacher. If it's the first or second, they need to be addressed with the school to get him the support he needs. If it's the latter, it's an important life lesson for him on how to deal with people he doesn't like or agree with. He will meet many people in life that he doesn't gel with. Unfortunately, some will indeed be people in authority such as teachers or senior work colleagues. He needs to learn how to handle his feelings appropriately, as he can't go through life lashing out and mouthing off just because he doesn't get on with someone. Could it be that his previous teachers have been too lenient and he's simply got away with such behaviour in the past at school, which this teacher simply won't tolerate? As a teacher, I've sometimes had parents claim their child "wasn't like this last year" when I know for a fact they were, they were just never pulled up on it by the previous teacher. That could be the case here. Year 3 is a big step up in terms of expectations. It could be that certain immaturities use to be let go, but now they're not acceptable. Your son may be struggling to cope with being pulled up on things, if it's something he has not been used to. Maybe he's starting to see himself as a "naughty kid" and living up to it? It's the self-fulfilling prophecy again. I'm not saying he is a "naughty kid" by the way, just that if it's the first time he's ever been in trouble at school it may be the first time he's potentially seen himself as that and he's struggling to cope with it? Some children are able to bounce back from the odd time out or missed playtime. For others, it can become a vicious cycle and spiral from there is they're not used to being pulled up on their behaviour. Maybe he quite likes the attention this behaviour is getting him?

You definitely need to investigate further and work with the school on this to help him turn a corner. Good luck.