Disagreement with teacher, what should I do next?

[Mama81]

Hi mumsnet,
My youngest is age 7, in year 3. He is academically bright. We have never had behaviour issues, either at home, clubs or previous school years. In his current class we are constantly being phoned/called in because my son doesnt listen/ignores teacher/will not co operate. This went on from September until Christmas.
As parents we work full time but we took him out of breakfast club and after school club to see if this helped (it did not)
Over the last 2 weeks things have got worse- he has hit another child (my son said this child pushed him) 'laughs' at the teacher when asked to do something, has spent 2 whole afternoons in the head teachers office and has not been allowed to play football.
I suspect he is copying other children's behaviours, but I'm obviously not in the class room, so I'm never going to know for certain.
We have both had many discussions with the teacher but are not getting anywhere, in fact it's getting worse. The teacher is insisting there are no triggers, patterns or copying other children.
What should I do next?

Slait - during covid i got my y3 at the time dd to do the ks2 sats spag test she got i think 109 scaled score. She was 7 still at the time. She went on to get 120 on the spag test by y6. (We didnt do any more practice tests.
In y2 she was 2 marks off the top on the ks1 reading sats while still 6.
She was about 4 years ahead on reading and read chapter books at the end of reception so before being 5. (Pippi longstocking)
She did find maths trickier though.
However she does have sen (asd and adhd) but her behaviur was challenging from nursery age (well birth really..)

She did find reception/y1 particularly hard but y3 teacher was even stricter.

Sometimes a teacher doesnt like your kid. And the kid becomes a target (sometimes this is the youngest in year as more impulsive etc). We had a chat as i was upset as teacher was basically encouraging the whole class to dob dc1 in for bad behaviour at breaks etc. Teacher backed off then there was covid hit so no more y3. Y4 was better i think perhaps because less demands on dc less whole school things. (Although they still mixed the 2 classes). And the teacher was softer which set dc off less.
Y5 and she had 2 strict teachers again so back to issues. And start of diagnosis.

With mine its not copying others exactly but i never wanted her with other tricky kids but unfortunately there are just too many in state mainstream now. Some of the issues in reception were just a consequence of 2 similar kids and luckily they listened when i said i hoope they arent together for y1.

So its not exactly boredom here either however she is very impatient and creates issues if she is waiting or queuing and that usually involves disturbing her sister.
I dont think she ever liked carpet time as you cant see the book etc.

My other dc despite looking like being adhd in nursery age at home actually was fine at nursery and school in fact the teachers love her. Is she masking (probably) she explodes as soon as she sees me.
She doesnt have best friends etc but gets invited to parties still.
But... Y3 and started getting some issues with crying a lot (age 8) and this teacher isnt as keen on her and shouts at the class a bit. Its just not suiting dc2 and causing issues at home with anxiety and associated behaviours. So sad too as the parallel teacher is the one who dc1 did well with and would have been good with dc2.

If your dc wasnt like this till this year maybe wait and see if next year starts better (depending on worsening behaviour).
Its a hard ask having to point out to the teacher he was ok in all other year groups though.

Consider sen
how are his friendships, could there be bullying or social issues
Sometimes boys dont like football so get isolated.
my dd reacted by hitting because she doesnt communicate (even with great speech and never had issues)
Asd kids also dont understand hierarch y so wouldnt see teacher being important or HT very important.

Yes in some ways.
Inexperienced and/or out of their depth.

But none of them could cope with a child telling them about stuff they didn’t know about or were making basic mistakes on.
Confirmed by other teachers too in secondary 🤷‍♀️🤷‍♀️

Why was the teacher an 'idiiot'?

Yes I acknowledged there will definitely be children who find it easy. The child I referred to, like your daughter, could score over 100 on old Y6 SATS papers in the first few weeks of Y3. But such children are a tiny minority of misbehaving children by a long way, yet boredom seems to be the go-to reason on MN for poor behaviour.

Few options

• teacher is being unfair or unduly strict
• teacher isn't going to stand for disruptive behaviour - did previous teachers see this and let it go? and is tackling it

What's his punishment at home for misbehaving?

Does he get his own way at home? You say he's fine at home but is he expected to go anything he doesn't want to?

It sounds like your son is struggling in this particular classroom, and the situation is getting worse instead of better. Given that he’s never had behavioural issues before, something isn’t right. The teacher insists there are no triggers or patterns, but that doesnt mean theyre not there it just means they havent looked closely enough.

You need a proper meeting with the teacher, headteacher, and SENCO, not just informal chats. Ask for specific details: when do these behaviours happen, whatever is going on around him, who else is involved? If they say there is no pattern, push back. Kids dont suddenly change for no reason.

Talk to your son in a way that makes him feel safe to open up. Instead of focusing on what he did wrong, ask what he likes and dislikes about school. Does he find certain times of the day hard? Does he feel the teacher treats him differently? If he is laughing when asked to do something, is it nerves, frustration, or is he copying someone else?

It is also worth considering whether this is a personality clash with the teacher or if the class environment itself isn’t working for him. He’s bright, so maybe he’s bored or feeling misunderstood. Given your older childs autism, it wouldnt hurt to explore whether your son has any subtle sensory or social difficulties that are only now becoming obvious.

Spending entire afternoons in the headteacher’s office isnt a solution, and banning him from football only isolates him further. The school needs to focus on helping him, not just punishing him. If they wont acknowledge that something’s not right, you may need to push harder - ask for a behaviour specialist to observe, talk to other parents to see if anyone else is having similar issues, or, as a last resort, consider whether this school is still the right fit for him.

What are the common patterns to the triggers? Can you get an insight into that. It must be pretty bad if the teacher is getting in all the time. What are his thoughts on his behaviour? Does he have an insight into what is making him behave in this way? Is there any neurodivergence there? Like adhd causing inability to sit still or pay attention to class activities. Or autism? Does he struggle to manage this emotions? Are there difficulties on a social and communication level? There is something triggering his behaviour, it will just be a question of finding out what. I would get the senco involved and see what they make of it. How does he behave at home? What do you observe about this at home or in social situations (parties/play dates etc).

I would also be getting a really solid understanding of how the behaviour is being managed by the teacher and the school. Is it all punishments? If so that’s not behaviour management. I suspect they might need to manage it using sen methods. I suggest you start researching neurodivergence and see if that resonates with you.

Saying your son is ‘copying’ is just a way of not dealing with your son’s needs because it makes you feel bad. Kids are kids and sometimes they behave badly. He is trying to show something with this behaviour and he needs firm support - not punishment. Talk to him without telling him off and venting your embarrassment. Tell him you’re on his side, reinforce how special and wonderful he is and say this behaviour seems like he’s unhappy and can you help. Create a conversation. But do stop making excuses.

Hi OP, I'm a Year 3 teacher, but I'm struggling to understand what the disagreement is that you are referring to. Would you be able to clarify?

What has your son said about his behaviour? His insight is very valuable.

Also, how are you following this behaviour up at home?

Sounds like he's bored

Despite teachers on the thread pointing out that's unlikely? And to what end if he is? He still needs to behave.

School shouldn't be boring and there are many boring teachers. Mine was bored at school but as girl she was used as so many girls are to sit next to the disruptive boys as 'babysitters'
Many primary schools use 'golden time' as a behaviour method. Mine didn't want 'Golden time' as that was the bullies time to harass.
Children that are engaged and challenged cause less trouble.

Be interesting to see how you've dealt with this OP from a discipline point of view - because if my child had been laughing at a teacher and not going as their told they'd get a right bollocking

Have you spoken to your son about his behaviour - does he know he's misbehaving?

Would he act this way if you were present? I've known some teachers allow a parent to be present in the classroom - might be worth seeing if that could be an option.

When my daughter was five, she went through a very “naughty” stage. She’d been a model pupil up until then. Even the teacher was shocked by her behaviour. The final issue was her running out of shop with a toy I’d said no to.

After trying what felt like every approach, I finally got her to sit down and talk. It took a few days but it transpired she was worried about being away from me to go visit her grandparents. She’d said she didn’t want to go but they are getting on so I said she had to. I’d made a joke about her living up there once, which for someone like my daughter who takes everything literally, must have really stressed her out. I didn’t think.

Kids do react in odd ways. The toy issue above turned out to be me having said she could have it previously and I’d forgotten. Adding all the other feelings about not being listened to and I think the toy was the final straw and her way of taking control when she felt she had none.

I would try and get them to talk to you. I found telling my daughter some of the things I get worried about, both big and small, helped her see it was normal . We also talked about how she might be hurting the teachers feelings and we wouldn’t want someone doing that to us.

As a retired teacher, I can reassure you teachers do not ‘dislike’ children or have personality clashes (might dislike parents!) Teachers just want children to behave and do their work. Another thing is some children’s behaviour at home can be very different to their behaviour in school.
Are you talking about the teacher in front of your DS? Is your attitude rubbing off on him and he is taking this attitude into school? For a child to be sent to headteacher and for headteacher to carry out an ‘in-house exclusion’ (ie having to work away from rest of class), child’s behaviour is unacceptable and situation is serious. You need to start working WITH the school to find out what’s happening with your child not AGAINST them.

Your whole OP is defending him, looking to blame others and painting him as never like this ever before or elsewhere.

Accept that you're not being lied to and he's doing this regardless of what you'd like to think and deal with his shitty attitude.

Yeh, I always cringe when a parent blames their child's poor behavioir on other children, claiming they must be copying them. My son is no saint. He definitely doesn't behave well sometimes. And maybe he does copy some of the things he sees other children do. But ultimately his behaviour is his own.

OP - did you excuse your sons behaviour because he is a summer baby and one of the youngest?

Why did you not want to bother your son?

Do you ever talk to your son?

With my DD, although she is generally a good girl, if another adult raises a concern I wouldn’t ignore it. Infact my DD is the first to hear about it. I will hear her side of the story and get her to tell me a few times. I know her well enough to suss if she’s being truthful or not - but as a parent our children need to know that whilst we are on their side, we will not condone bad behaviour.

Speak to your son. What’s happening with his friends? What’s happening at home? Is he carrying anything?

m There are all sorts of things that will make a child act out -but I always say evey child has their moments

Ground him and take away his privileges and tell him he won’t get them back unless his behaviour immediately improves.

What you need to do is discipline your child.

Behaviour is communication! Your boy isn't okay, that's what he is telling you. Try and find the root cause.
I don't think he needs more punishment, quite the opposite.

He is 7 years old!
What privileges does he get??
Keeping him.indoor won't get to the root of whatever is going on
Take him out for a long walk and listen to him

7 is still old enough for consequences. If you are not dealing with poor behaviour now it's going to be a real bitch later on.

The consequences are for the teacher to implement since the issues happen at school