Has anyone completely withdrawn their DC from RE at primary school? Experiences pls...

[MegBusset]

it's a long way off for us to start worrying about it but just wondering what people's experiences were. We will definitely withdraw DS from the 'act of worship' bit when he goes to school (will definitely be a community school, we are atheists and don't believe religion should have a place in schools unless in a strictly historical sense).

Undecided, however, about whether to keep him out of RE part of the curriculum as well, and interested in the experiences of people who have done this, or considered doing it but then decided not to. Do you feel your DC missed out? What did they do instead? Did they still get to take part in debates about moral issues?

Don't want this to turn into a debate about whether religion should have a place in schools, it's been done to death and you won't change my mind on that one!

What an interesting debate - as both an atheist, an ex-primary school teacher and a soon to be mother, I was following with interest!

Have to say that, IME, primary RE lessons are not always taught the way they should be, i.e. "some people believe" line.

I once observed a lesson where a vicar had been invited in by the teacher to talk about religion and churches in general (think it was around Easter time and he was talking about the story of Easter) when one of my kids asked him about The Da Vinci Code cos that had just come out at the cinema, and he wanted to know if the vicar believed that Jesus had had children, etc. The teacher who was leading the lesson was a devout Christian and before the vicar could say anything she jumped in and said, "of course, what you have to remember is that the Bible is true whereas The Da Vinci Code is only a story"!

I was stunned and wanted to say something but felt having a theological argument over the heads of all these children in front of a vicar was possibly not v professional! Luckily this lad brought the topic up again when I was back in my own class and I was able to point out that "some people believe, etc"

Having said all that, I think the home environment is far more influential than school and I have no intention of taking my child out of assembly or RE lessons, but will encourage them to talk about what they learn at home so I can provide them with the alternative view if necessary.

For what it's worth, I strongly disagree that atheism shouldn't be taught as part of RE - I think it's perfectly valid that children should be taught that plenty of people live fulfilling and good lives without believing in God, and The British Humanist Association provides teaching materials to do just that. The RE curriculum allows for teachers to teach humanism but it is not yet a proper part of the curriculum and it should be cos for most people nowadays religion is utterly irrelevant and children need to be able to understand that they can still live by a moral code without all the other stuff that religion offers (good and bad).

It always irritates me when people say that a benefit of religion is that it teaches good morals - so good morals are unavailable without religion?!

As for the killer frog comparison, why is it disrespectful? To an atheist, the concept of God is completely unthinkable, just as is a killer frog - we would equate the two as equally impossible so why are we not allowed to say so? Why all this pussy-footing around religion, why does it get special treatment? If you are a Labour supporter and somebody says that they are a Conservative supporter and they think that Labour's polices are ridiculous, you wouldn't be offended! You'd disagree, but I bet you wouldn't be personally offended.

As for the "it's been around for ages" argument - just because something is old doesn't make it credible.

The more I study religion the more I dislike it, find its stories and morals repellant and disgusting and find myself less attracted to religion and religious people. So why would I want that to happen to my children.
Religion is not nice. It's horrible

Speaking as a Christian, I would certainly want my children to be taught about atheism in a respectful and validating way, just as I want them taught about Islam, Sihkism, Christianity, Judaism etc. Also about agnosticism.

I would be very worried if they grew up in a multi-cultural society and were not taught about other people's beliefs- including not believing in a god.

I really cannot understand parents who keep their children home from the school trip to the Gurdwara or synagogue- or the church for that matter.

If it's not a church school, the religious ed is going to be very broad. I wouldn;t have a problem with it, but then am agnostic rather than atheist. I'd veery towards letting him make his own mind up, or he will turn into a religious maniac in his teens to spite you

I think that not allowing a child to learn about religion actually indicates a fear of religion - a fear that your child might actually decide that he believes in God and would like to pray/sing hymns/go to church. How will you feel if he finds faith and wishes to practice it?

We can only learn tolerance of others' beliefs if we know what they're all about.

Also, by excluding him from certain things you are singling him out, making him miss out on some bits that are fun, ie the nativity/easter cards/cooking etc. And believe me he will notice.

There is a child in my ds' class who is jw. As a result he is not allowed to participate in the nativity/anything to do with Christmas. When the children made easter cards he made just a general card, and when it's a child's birthday he is not allowed to sing "happy birthday" with the other children (on his parents' request.). I have on more than one occasion been in class when it's been another child's birthday and the class have sung happy birthday, and the child has talked about his presents, and the cake he/she is going to have etc, and on each occasion this other little boy has become quite upset, saying he wants his mummy. I've just seen it too many times for it to be a coincidence. Plus, when children were doing the nativity, and they had their christmas meal, he wasn't allowed to attend. After the event ds said to me "xxx wanted to come to the christmas party with us" and I said to him "but xxx family don't celebrate Christmas" to which ds replied "well his mummy and daddy don't, but he believes." I asked him why he thought that and he said "because he told me."

So you can bring your children up to believe what you do, doesn't mean they will.

"I think that not allowing a child to learn about religion actually indicates a fear of religion"

No, not at all, it's simply a case of not wishing our children to be involved in something which we think is wrong.

While I can;t speak for any other poster, obviously, I have no problem with my DS learning about religions - it is important to know about the various myth systems because knowledge about them is part of understanding history, culture, anthropology etc. What I object to is children being forced to participate in ritual behaviour ie talking to imaginary beings when they are at school.

Tinkjon on Fri 30-May-08 14:58:39
"I think that not allowing a child to learn about religion actually indicates a fear of religion"

"No, not at all, it's simply a case of not wishing our children to be involved in something which we think is wrong."

Surely you can learn about something without getting involved in it? Or do you intend to withdraw your child from lessons about Nazism and slavery and the inquisition?

I don't intend to withdraw my children from any classes, including RE. I just objected to the ridiculous notion that some atheists are afraid of religion if they don't want their child to participate in it. Besides, there are no classes purely about Nazis and slavery - they are topics within history lessons, history being a very important subject. However, I would rather my child spend valuable school time on something other than what is, to me, superstition. But, as I said, that's just an ideal and in practice I wouldn't withdraw my child from the classes, for the reasons that others have given.