A "Greater Depth Table" - children aware of

[everychildmatters]

So I'm an experienced primary teacher and today went for an interview for a part-time class teacher. I didn't get it but for a number of reasons feel relieved as I don't think the school would have been the right fit for me.
Something I wanted to ask opinions on...
It was for a Y3 class. One of the children in the class came up to me and pointed to one of the tables and said: "That table is only for the Greater Depth children, only they are allowed to sit at that table."
The Head also said I would only have half of the class and that the "other children who may be difficult" would be taken elsewhere. I felt they were being hidden.
None of these sit comfortably with me but what do others think?
The school are incredibly proud of their SATs results with something like 97% achieving GD in English.

How do they fit 97% of the class on the same table? 😉

I'd say you had a very lucky escape. Hiding children with additional needs away is a major red flag for me, let alone the 'Greater Depth table' rubbish.

Good luck finding a more suitable role.

Tbh it seems a bit daft to hide the ‘difficult’ children away in an interview. Surely they’d want to see how you handled them?! Almost seems like they’re trying to trick you into the role! Very strange. Probably a lucky miss for you.

My child is GD AND difficult. How do they cope with that?

I would like that as I would think it very efficient use of time.

I’d be interested to know more about their curriculum. I wonder how broad and balanced it is.

I like the idea of a greater depth table and wish my daughter’s school offered the same. It seems rare these days for state schools to provide additional support for the more able kids.

Thank you both. It just left me feeling uncomfortable, especially as someone who is a huge advocate for SEN and strongly believes that a good classroom is an inclusive one.
There were also two questions in the interview that I've not been met with before...one asking me what I do for my wellbeing bearing in mind how incredibly difficult teaching is (fair enough?)
But then another standalone question on my supoort network and how I cope with a huge amount of pressure.
It also appears that the lady who is leaving creating the vacancy is doing so quite suddenly; I did notice that on my look-around when I was told "This is the lady leaving" she didn't say hello or even make eye contact.
I do wonder if I've dodged a bullet?

@NicoleSkidman I'm not a fan personally, especially when the other children explicitly knew only the GD children could sit there.
Would you think the same for a "Not working at expected level" table.
There is also no TA to support so not sure how the class teacher alone can meet all of the needs of everyone if separated like that.

@Delorian I got the strong impression the "difficult" chldren were removed for interview purposes.

Out of interest (and this is a genuine question), how do you feel GD children are best supported in the classroom? My DC is not enjoying school as the work is too easy and their needs are not being met. My initial thought when I read about a GD table was 'yes please!!'.

In my experience, the kids that are struggling do get put on the same table so that teachers can help them all at the same time. No one seems to have an issue with this, so I’m not sure why the same isn’t true of kids working at GD.

@Secretroses The simple answer is it is incredibly difficult in a class of 30 with no TA support.
In my current Y6 class alone, for example, I have one child working at Reception level.(non-verbal), two at Year 3 level, two at Year 4 level, and then a mix of expected and GD.
It is almost impossible unless grouped (which Ofsted are critical of).

@NicoleSkidman There are huge disadvantages to this set up. It doesn't happen in the school I'm currently at; children are sat in mixed abilities.

Im really confused. Throughout this thread you seem to dislike ability based tables but here suggest grouping them is the only way to meet GD childrens needs. I think most people would agree that grouping together those who need most help makes sense as the teacher can help them all together. So.... What exactly is the issue with ability tables other than 'ofsted doesnt like it', if the children benefit from it?

A lot if teachers these days seem to think the needs of GD children are less important than those of other children and i dont understand quite why - do they matter less? Because thats the impression you give them my ignoring them, in case you wondered

If the school doesn’t want to have ability based tables (there are ways of doing this so the kids aren’t aware) then differentiated work, or work with progressively difficult sections. A school near me actually has an entirely separate class and then the children come together for non core subjects - the children aren’t aware that they’ve actually been split by ability- but that school doesn’t have staffing issues. Unfortunately, schools have very few resources and far too many needs in the classroom. I think it very much depends on area and individual schools as well - I’m in an 11+ area with lots of mc families- schools know they’ll go elsewhere if these kids aren’t catered for. Obviously, there’s less pressure from parents in non-selective areas.

@Saturdayssandwichsociety Teachers are not ignoring the GD children, but the less able also have exactly the same right to as much teacher support. It's about inclusivity.
But my concern is that this is going to turn into yet another teacher bashing thread as, am I'm sure you can appreciate, I'm shattered after a morning of interview and an afternoon full of class teaching.
We do our absolute best.

Completely agree it is difficult unless grouped which is what the GD table aims to achieve i think...

My impression is the mixed ability tables appear to work well for those working at expected level and working towards but not for GD, where the temptation is to use the GD children as TAs to support other children's learning. I get that explaining a concept to someone else helps consolidate your own understanding but this should not be instead of feeling challenged yourself in the subject. A GD table where the children are working at a similar pace and can bounce off each other or work together to solve a tricky challenge question sounds wonderful to me!

@Moglet4 Sounds great, but with teacher and supoort staff recruitment and retention as it currently is, there would not be the staffing for this in most primaries.
In fact, you're lucky if your child is being taught by a qualified teacher for the majority these days. This is increasingly becoming more and more of an issue.

I know, it’s appalling and little better in secondary. I’m an English teacher yet I’ve had to teach 2 GCSE History classes 😳 and an extension group Maths GCSE class!

@Saturdayssandwichsociety

A lot if teachers these days seem to think the needs of GD children are less important than those of other children and i dont understand quite why - do they matter less?

We used to have G&T focus when I first started teaching & were judged on A-C grades. Now it's all about proving progress based on where they started. So I do feel that bright students aren't really a focus. The view at my school is "white middle class children will do well whatever so we're not interested in them" & so after that I decided not to send my daughter there as there was a policy to prioritise other students. I was told this by 2 different heads at my school.

Lots of G&T children can be quiet & introverts (not always obviously) so might benefit from sitting with similar students. I think lots of primary schools have tables set up in groups based on ability. At my primary school we had 3 form entry & were setted. This was late 70s early 80s.

@everychildmatters

the less able also have exactly the same right to as much teacher support. It's about inclusivity.

I would imagine the greater depth table would work pretty much independently & you could focus more energy on the ones who need it. I tend to sit the ones needing no support on the back row & I can then focus on the ones at the front more.

It would be great to hear on here the views on this from a parent of a child/children not working towards or at expected...

@converseandjeans But then the GD are left and not "moved on" in their work as well as they could be?

I have one working at expected and one at GD, The one at expected is quiet and shy and I find he always seems to be positioned next to children with behavioural issues. I have no idea what level those children at working at though.

@everychildmatters

Yes it's difficult. I don't know what the answer is. I just think that they need less input & this allows you to circulate & sit with the ones who need you more. Just do for Numeracy & Literacy & then mix them up for everything else? Children always know who the smartest is wherever you sit them!