Reception - will I regret state?

[Cutie18327]

I'm currently looking at schools for my 3 year old daughter, she turns 4 in August 2025 so is due to start reception in September 25.

My local schools are School 1 (RI juniors, but G infants), School 2 (me and hubby hated), School 3 (CoE, hard to get into). We are relatively comfortable financially but to afford private I would probably need to return to work full time. Now both myself and my husband are teachers so have a solid grasp of helping our children through their education, we can do extra curricular activities out of school, but I do worry about larger class sizes, behaviour and higher teacher turnover in the state schools. My daughter has already started on the basics in terms of phonics and numeracy and I want to nuture that instead of feeling like she will be pulled behind in a state class and a large class of 30....

My husband is against spending 40k (between 2 kids) on private education as we are aiming for grammar ultimately and would rather invest the money so we can live comfortably and provide our children with more opportunities further down the line.

Opinions? Does private really matter at primary age?

I want to nuture that instead of feeling like she will be pulled behind in a state class and a large class of 30....

The majority of grammar pupils (presumably) have managed to achieve well in state school classes. My Dc thrived all the way through state education (comprehensive secondary) is S London schools and have done very well indeed for themselves in top Unis and beyond.

There may be 30 in a class but support from TA increases support for individual children, and any requiring more help
may be in a supporting unit.

How do you have these questions if you are a teacher?

What do you mean by ‘hard to get into’ - you are either in the catchment or you are not.

Posts like this are why people are rude about ‘private school parents’ - you are making wild assumptions about the state sector based, it seems, purely on the fact that it’s free and something free obviously isn’t good.

I'm intrigued whether you and your husband teach state or private? You don't say, but if you do teach state I'm sure you'll know the answer to your question. With supportive parents, she'll be absolutely fine at a state school. She will not be "pulled behind" by attending a state school. I find that notion very strange from someone in education. If you are in state, are your own students "pulled behind" from being in a class of 30? Just because there are more pupils in the class, does not mean those children can't reach their true potential.

It definitely sounds like you'd be wise to save your money for now in your circumstances. The only thing private really has going for it at Reception level, over state, is the smaller class sizes, which might suit certain children better (but most cope absolutely fine in a class of 30). Sure, most private schools have better data, but that's not hard when most cherry pick their pupils. They're teaching children of people who are generally well educated themselves, in order to afford it, and who are naturally going to be supportive of their education, given that they're paying for it. It's not hard to achieve great data in those circumstances. Personally I'd be more interested in progress, which you'll often see by the bucket load in the state sector.

If a child is naturally quite able and is well supported at home, they'll be absolutely fine wherever they go.

Do you work in the state sector?
I'm assuming not from some of things you say about state schools in your OP.
It's a massive waste of money at primary in my opinion. If your child is reasonably bright then they're going to be just fine anywhere.

So I am going to actually try to answer your question rather than speculate on why you are asking the question… it depends on what your child is like and what school options are like. I wouldn’t read too much into ofsted ratings (assume that is what you mean by RI and G) - I don’t think the evaluations are fit for purpose and we had a terrible experience with an ‘excellent’ school while I know others in ‘good’ or even ‘requires improvement’ schools that have had brilliant experiences. You need to tour the school and speak to parents and try and get a sense of what the school will be like, what it prioritises, and whether that is a good match for you.

some kids benefit more in private than others. State tends to be a one size fits all approach, even when they do their best to reach all children, as the staffing ratios just don’t allow a more individualised approach. If you have a child that ‘fits’, i can see why you would think it a waste of money to pay for private. If you have a child that doesn’t get on with state school, private can be game changing. One of my dc is neurodiverse and there is a massive difference in her experience at our nonselective indie vs the very well regarded state school we started her in - it has been life changing, and is absolutely worth the money. For our neurotypical child I would say they still benefitted from private in reception but probably wouldn’t have paid for it at that level if their sibling hadn’t needed it. As they move into ks2 I do see more of a difference as specialist lessons increase and extracurriculars/ enrichments expand.

You get more at private school for your child, but if you pay 15K+, what other answer can one expect??

Private pre-prep ( 5 to 7) will be by and large the same as state primary- work wise BUT smaller classes, more one to one, lots more clubs and after school and breakfast club places. You'll have swimming every week at private in Reception, and usually one 'in house' musical intstrument lesson , better sports, a music teacher, and a language teacher. You'll have much more parents who are pretty much obsessed about achievment and getting ahead, as they are paying an arm and leg on fees and want something in return.

Things start to pull away at Prep, (Year 3) from state primary and all these things above start to pay off in producing more 'rounded ' kids , more confident - huge generalisation as private schools are full of kids with parents with wealth, who own their own home and can afford culturally enriching lives, these kids are confident in a state school or private school. Kids that are a bit 'meh' benefit from the extra 'care' at private school and bright (and average) kids don't get as bored as they can at some state schools.

After Year 3, able children are given opportunity to pull ahead and prep schools aren't chained to government targets, etc, but you know this if you've ever taught in a state school.

If you're happy to supplment with swimming in reception, language online classes, extra clubs like ballet, junior tennis, etc, music instrument lessons, you can 'recreate' a private school experience for your child, but its bloody hard work , I know a few parents who do it, and its a 7 day a week job, compared to writing a cheque and getting the school to do all of it for you Monday to Friday and having weekends free.

Also if you're aiming for grammar, prep will make it easier to get into one.

Anyone who says 'its a waste of money' is simply lying to themselves, a great prep school towers over a great state primary, the spend per pupil makes any comparison meaningless like comparing buying a 300K flat to a 900K house.

Quote from Institute of for FIscal Studies:

'In 2022–23, average private school fees across the UK were £15,200 in today's prices (net of bursaries and scholarships). This is £7,200 or nearly 90% higher than state school spending per pupil, which was £8,000 in 2022–23 (including day-to-day and capital spending).'

ifs.org.uk/publications/tax-private-school-fees-and-state-school-spending#:~:text=In%202022%E2%80%9323%2C%20average%20private,%2Dday%20and%20capital%20spending).

DD was very academic but struggled socially and in larger groups BUT we sent her to a rated Good State Primary that had a 3 class intake and she did very well.
She got a part scholarship to Private Secondary, also a place at Grammar but we opted for Private

Just to add , I don't think two parents working as teachers need to send their child to private pre-prep certainly, you should go state, with one eye on a possible Y3 for Prep if your DC is not thriving.

Pre-prep would be a waste of money in your case OP, but a good Prep can , as others have said, be life changing for some children.

What are you basing this on?
private schools spend more and private schools have smaller staff:child ratios are basic facts but you’re making enormous extrapolations.

Do you have data about children’s confidence? The care they receive? The supposed boredom of bright kids? What exactly does well-rounded mean when comparing one child with another?

One school may suit a child better than another. This is not specific to state or private. This rhetoric is utter nonsense.

The key word here @MonteStory is where I said, 'huge generalisation '

You may find classes are smaller than 30 anyway with the dropping birth rates. We have many schools here which used to be massively over subscribed, now having 15-25 in a class!
I’m not keen on smaller classes and would rather it was 30, but some schools in some areas have even closed due to the lack of kids so it may not play out that way.

My children’s phonics and reading has been excellent at state school. My youngest loves maths and is getting on really well with it. My eldest does loads of extra curricular clubs.

Save your money! You can always get a tutor and pay for extra stuff if needed.

Just because you cannot distill it down to a single data point (how would one quantify confidence?) doesn’t meant it isn’t a real and meaningful difference.

on average private will be able to provide more for a child because it is better resourced and has more flexibility. Obviously there are terrible private schools and brilliant state schools that out perform their resourcing. Obviously the difference will have more of an impact for some children than others.

How do we define 'rounded' kids? Personally, I'd put the opportunity to mix with a people from a wide range of backgrounds up there. Opportunities for that are far more limited at private school. Terms like 'rounded' are so subjective.

Anyone who says 'its a waste of money' is simply lying to themselves.

We can all play that game:-

Anyone who says private will be worth the money is justifying their own life choices...

This thread has gone exactly as I expected it would:-

State school parents - "No, not worth it".
Private school parents - "Definitely worth it".

Why would it go any other way? If people choose that avenue, they're going to defend their decision. Most people haven't experienced both with the same child, so don't really have any idea how their children will have got on elsewhere (myself included). For us, private will never even be an option financially. I've always assumed I would never even consider it, even if it was, due to my experience of the state sector as both a pupil and teacher. I've no reasons not to go for it. I wouldn't choose to teach in the private sector, so I assume I would never send my children. Who knows though? If the finances were there, maybe I would actually think differently. For most people, private will never be a realistic option. If it is, I guess it's a decision which needs weighing up and you'd probably be foolish not to even look into it. That doesn't mean it will always be worth it. Everyone has different priorities and will prioritise their finances accordingly. As someone who has done absolutely fine through the state sector, of course I'm going to advocate for it. Someone with a very different state experience, who can afford private, is bound to see things differently though.

Ultimately OP, only you and your husband can decide how to spend your money. You definitely need to research it thoroughly, by visiting all of your possibilities. It sounds like you've made a start on this. Explore all potential options in your local area. I'm sure the decision you make will be the right one for you and your family, whether individuals on here with different home circumstances agree with your choice or not. You're highly unlikely to get an unbiased opinion on here though, so you need to go with your own gut.

I have three DC, they're all teenagers now. Two of them have gone all the way through the state sector and are doing very well. The youngest was struggling at his state primary for various reasons, so we took him out and sent him to private school for the last couple of years of primary (he's at a state secondary school now). So I guess my answer is that it depends on the child, or rather on the combination of child and school. Maybe start her out in the state school and see how she is getting on?

One of the best things you could be doing for your August born child's education is to apply for a deferred start so they dont start reception until they are 5. www.gov.uk/government/publications/summer-born-children-school-admission

What suits your DC? I have a July born. Currently in a large nursery. We briefly considered the local private as all of the state schools have mixed year groups but it only has a reception capacity of 12. We felt this was too small for our child.

A friend who has children at the school spends time / money on extracurricular stuff just so her children can make friends as the classes are too small (although they do get bigger as you go up the school).

We chose a large primary school with smaller and separate EYFS classes. Eg 2 smaller classes of 22 in reception but 3 mixed Y1/Y2 of 30.

I think secondary is a different kettle of fish.

I don't think turnover of staff is a reflection of private v state btw. And remember that private school teachers don't have to have a teaching qualification.

FWIW I went to a private school.

Just send her to the state school, and calm down about it all. She’s three. You can have no idea whether she is a grammar contender.

School 3
Every single middle class family in our church school with one teacher parent in recent years has made it to grammar school and the kids do really well if no SEND and supported at home.

Depends on school

State school main issues
High sen (our school specifically 10% of children by y6 on asd waitlist or diagnosed). Several also adhd). Of which 1 left y1 to go to sen school and 1 y7)
Behaviour issues in younger years largely sen but later years boy's behaviour deteriorating.
Will not push kids to exceed. Eldest dc completely capable but not assisted as meeting. Only real effort put on by school for sats...
No homework marked.
Basicallly its parents doing all reading with dc as teacher read with mine about 6 times a year and maybe slightly more with TA.

Probably save the money for tuition for grammar..
As secondary is largely a shit show. Even higher sen. Some kids unable to read.
No homework marked what little is is not fed back. Its onlt about tests so kids dont deepen understanding with wrotten homework its allllllll revision which is also stressful.

Just double checking - what problem is there with SEN kids being in schools?

If the issue is they’re not adequately supported, sure - but it sounds an awful lot like them daring to… be in a school, is somehow making state schools fail?

Thank you to those that have answered thoughtfully, just to address a couple of a questions:

@MonteStory I'm not making assumptions, I have taught in the state secondary sector for 15 years and would not send my own children to any of the local state of schools. I don't have the same experience of primary, hence branching out to a wider audience. With regards to 'hard to get into', we are only just in catchment but as its the only outstanding school nearby, it's heavily over subscribed. I am planning on getting more details with regards to this when I attend the open morning.

@BoleynMemories13 thank you this was really useful and consolidating.

@Embery also really useful, thank you. My main worry was getting a string of teachers who will not push further as I know my daughter will be meeting necessary progress points on time.

@OriginalShutters with all due respect schooling and appropriate environment is important to me so it's unfair of you to make that comment.

Whatever you or I feel, the hard fact remains- on average private schools have NINETY PERCENT MORE SPEND PER PUPIL and on average produce HIGHER ACADEMIC RESULTS.

One's own bias is largely irrelevant.

These are two stone cold facts, send your kid to private school and on average they will attain better academic results, better jobs and have a shedload more resources spent on them (courtesy of your wallet). How we feel about this is meaningless to those facts.

I went to state school and did very well in life, I think pre-prep is by and large a waste of money but I'd be blind to see the benefits of prep and senior schools. I can't escape the facts, whatever I feel about them.

If you look at Oxbridge entry, we can argue about the why's all evening , but the fact remains even with contextual offers, and all the hoo-haa about recruiting more diverse entry, private schools still dominate the schools who get the most offers, and like some self-fulfilling prophecy, the system perpetuates itself. The VAT raid by Starmer will re-inforce this.

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/which-schools-get-the-most-pupils-in/

In the particular schools that your child would go to, what do you prefer about the private schools vs state schools? How would these things affect any child or your child specifically? In YOUR area, what are the options and what are the good or bad about the specific state/private schools you would use?

I think you need to look at the private and state schools around you and see how they would benefit or disadvantage your child. I mean if private school really mattered, kids in state schools would be leaving year 6 emotionally traumatised, with academic abilities a kin to a 4 year old!

So dismantle the system, @silentwallflower. It’s not hard. Lots of countries do very well without any private schools.

I have lots of year 7 students with reading ages that are significantly below average and a plethroa of emotional trauma for lots of various reasons to be completely frank. I can't make the comparison for private as I don't know.