Reception - will I regret state?

[Cutie18327]

I'm currently looking at schools for my 3 year old daughter, she turns 4 in August 2025 so is due to start reception in September 25.

My local schools are School 1 (RI juniors, but G infants), School 2 (me and hubby hated), School 3 (CoE, hard to get into). We are relatively comfortable financially but to afford private I would probably need to return to work full time. Now both myself and my husband are teachers so have a solid grasp of helping our children through their education, we can do extra curricular activities out of school, but I do worry about larger class sizes, behaviour and higher teacher turnover in the state schools. My daughter has already started on the basics in terms of phonics and numeracy and I want to nuture that instead of feeling like she will be pulled behind in a state class and a large class of 30....

My husband is against spending 40k (between 2 kids) on private education as we are aiming for grammar ultimately and would rather invest the money so we can live comfortably and provide our children with more opportunities further down the line.

Opinions? Does private really matter at primary age?

Her primary school’s ethos was “we can’t all be academic/sporty, but we can all be kind”. They don’t do anything that excludes any child. There’s a huge amount to be said for this approach, when we think about them as future world citizens (and the utter shit show they’re going to ha e to fix).

Better academically
Better facilities
More beautiful surroundings
Better pastoral care
More structured extracurricular activities
More options for extracurricular activities
More homework/prep support after school
Healthier food options
Better behaved students
A culture of wanting to learn

There’s probably more but it was 30 years ago and these are the ones that stand out.

My understanding- correct me if I am wrong - is that you live in a fully selective area (11+ deciding grammar school entry) and that is your preferred secondary destination.

Basically, you need to work backwards from this. Are some of the grammars so sought after as to be ‘superselective’ (taking only the very top applicants, maybe from a very wide ares) or are all of them ‘normally selective’ (take around 20-25% of all applicants, usually from within a local area)?

The 11+ is an ‘arms race’ in areas where one or more schools are preferred superselectived. Tutoring will be normal for Y5, and often Year 4. Certain private schools will trade on their expertise as ‘grammar crammers’ (ie they don’t feed into private secondaries very much, if at all) and will offer quite intensive ‘teaching and assessing to the test’ from at least Y3. As these schools raise the competitive bar, private tutoring for their pupils in Y5 at least then becomes universal etc etc.

In areas where the grammars are ‘normally selective’, there is still tutoring, but as so many more children ‘pass’, the arms race is less acute and the expensive expertise of the private primary ‘grammar crammers’ therefore seen as a less worthwhile expenditure.

It’s also worth remembering falling birth rates, so schools once seen as ‘impossible to get into’ may well be actively seeking pupils for your child’s age group.

I would bisit and evaluate all options, considering ease of movement at Y3 or even mid-year if an initial trial at one school turns out to be unsuccessful.

A childhood friend of mine hung himself at private school. Probably 30 years ago now.

30 years ago I'm not sure the pastoral care was anything like better. I have a sibling whose trauma from teacher bullying at a high ranking boys' day school will never leave him!

These are sweeping generalisations. There's a city centre private school near us with absolutely no grounds at all and all sports require a mini bus and journey off site.

All of these things are school and pupil specific.

My friends with children at a private day school are envious of the wider GCSE options offered to my RI state comp educated dc

For any girl considering private school, I would always ask extremely searching questions about the incidence of eating disorders. Equally, for all pupils at secondary, I would ask for their disciplinary procedure for drug use in and out of school, and how often they have had to use it over the past year.

Not so envious that they’ve moved their children in your school.

🤣

I would put them into a state school, teach them good morals, values, compassion and understanding. It's not all about being the smartest academically, it's about understanding people from all walks of life too. They will naturally draw to like minded people with similar outlooks.
Spend your free energy and time on extra curricular activities and teaching them youself. Being a present parent will nourish their emotional development too.
They are only young once so enjoy it with them, rather than being exhausted from teaching other people's children.

Another note to echo what others have said, I went to private school and I hated it and ended up with an eating disorder that ruined my teenage years. The pressure wasn't worth it. It isn't all unicorns and rainbows it's a whole load of pressure that some buckle under...

The right decision depends on

• what proportion of your income 2x fees in private schools will be. Will it be better for the whole family to spend that much money on schools?

• what are your main three priorities for your kids when, let's say, they reach 18? Better to be as specific (and realistic) as possible. Is it Oxbridge - social lift - sports type? Or something more down to earth?

If you can't afford private comfortably then stick with state, do lots of extra curricular and learning with them.
A comfortable house, some travel and experiences are worth a lot.

If your child doesn't get into grammar, would you want to go state or private? If you would go private at secondary then perhaps save your money towards that? My friend taught at a private primary and said it was a waste of money. Just her opinion but I hold it in high regard. My yr3 DC could read before reception and now reads 3yrs ahead of his age so I don't see that state secondary has held him back, he's also ahead in maths, to my surprise. My yr5 DC is dyslexic and is getting good support.

We live about 300 miles from each other so that's not on the cards.

They are against state schools so it's not something they would consider. But they are able to see that their not particularly academic ds would have really benefitted from a wider range of practical/creative subjects, and that the over focus on academic grades has been less than helpful for his self esteem.

I think the other consideration is how much pressure you will be putting on your child to ‘succeed’ in a particular way because of the effort and sacrifice you have had to put in to find funds for private schooling.

I mean, it’s bad enough when expensively-coached state pupils don’t get into their target selective school. Knowing that your parents had worked extra hours and ploughed 7 years’-worth of fees into it as well just raises the emotional stakes for you all.

Both our kids have thrived in state primary schools (with large intakes) in an area with serious issues due to deprivation
Not saying the schools have been perfect but having supportive capable parents with the resources to support them has smoothed the bumps.
The eldest is now doing A-levels , youngest in yr4 so we have a range of experience and due to house moves they went to different primaries.
We've been more concerned at secondary but it's been manageable with a capable child and our support & resources, he got great exam results and has a solid friendship
We have a lot of friends who have sent kids to private schools (very common in particular professional group) and to be honest the outcome has been fairly similar although the problems have been different
Serious Bullying seems to have been a massive issue that the schools have dealt with badly (or failed to deal with at all ) with local private schools with awful fallout.

State schools in our experience have been rubbish at communication, lack resources and are often at risk of losing the good teachers however there have been some fantastic teachers for both kids. Current primary is fantastic for SEN and also supporting the rest of the kids to support & engage well with those who have SEN.
Secondary used to be good but lost a lot of resources and change of head means not so great but other state schools in area do have a good reputation for this. We have interacted with the schools so we have a good relationship with them and always reassessed throughout whether or not it's still working.
We have invested the money we would have spent of a private education on resources for our kids (books, tech, hobbies etc) , holidays and experiences and savings for their future (uni, house, car fund) which will have a huge impact on them going forward. We know we are privileged to be able to make a choice and for us this worked, not saying it would for everyone but for us it's been the right way to look at their education.

State to private - at any point - is likely to be more possible in terms of places available, whereas getting an occasional place in a generally over-subscribed primary is always going to be a matter of luck. Worth asking when you view all schools how many children they typically have on their waiting lists.

Most private primaries are only very mildly selective - they like to appear selective, with rounds of assessment, but in practice they are generally weeding out anyone who might potentially be ‘difficult’ (SEN affecting behaviour, for example) rather than deciding between the extremely able and higher middle ability.

As a result, a move to private in-year, after R or Year 1, in Year 3 or even later is usually possible for a compliant child of reasonable ability, especially in thus era of low birth rates and high fee rises.

My August born boy (later than yours) got A*AA in his A levels. The same as his spring born sister.
I think having the mindset that they can helps as much as anything and focusing on effort not grades. I found thst he took a while to hit his stride so not linear and when he did he took off. That would be true at any type of school.
Both mine were state all the way through.

If you’re teachers then you should know better than to give any weight to ofsted ratings. You should also realise that the vast majority of kids do just fine in state education.

If your main goal is prepping them for state grammar at 11+ then I would have thought two teacher parents could do that very effectively.

And not everyone wants to teach where their child attends.

Choosing between state and private schools totally depends on your goals for your child. If you prefer a more relaxed environment with less early pressure, a state school might be the better choice. They take a holistic approach, focusing on bringing everyone to a certain level rather than fostering a competitive nature. These schools are designed to be inclusive and non-competitive.
However if fostering academic interest, encouraging healthy competition, offering healthy food options and better extracurricular activities are your priorities, private schools are suitable. The smaller class sizes of private schools are apt for more personalized environment and focus.
Ultimately, the decision is based entirely on your family’s goals and budget. All families and children are different so what works for one may not be suitable for another. Both state and private schools have their advantages and the differences typically noticeable after Year 2. Until then, there is hardly any difference. Hope this helps.

The most important thing to us is having well rounded, happy, polite and caring children. Of course I want them to do well academically, but more so than that, I want them to thrive. Unfortunately, it seems like our standards are just very high as all the local state schools just aren't meeting our expectations and we aren't 100% sold on any of them, hence why the query about private. I don't need or necessarily want my kids to attend Oxbridge, I am happy to be guided by their interests and passions however, the matter of the fact is that the state primaries near to us are just poor in lots of different ways. It says a lot about the state of education unfortunately.

I'm sorry that happened to your friend. A friend of mine did the same at state school 20 years ago. I'm not sure it's representative of the overall atmosphere, rather the problematic inner landscape of one young person and the unique circs they're in.

Quite. Which is why statements like “private is better” are actually meaningless. Not all plants flourish in the same soil.