teaching is just buggered up isn't it?

[Twiglett]

with the mollycoddled brats who are brought up with no sense of respect for education or basic manners and the my-child-centred parents who believe that nobody is allowed to say boo to their kids

sad, very sad

School is part of and a reflection of life.....good and bad.
Mrz - I know Ofsteds don't reflect everything. I suppose I sort of meant that my dd's class, at the moment, has an involved and pro-active group of parents. The Ofsted particularly comments on that and the school's pupil committee and involvement of pupils in choices the school makes. There is a lot of respect for the pupils input...I suppose I think that helps.

Sounds as if we could be talking about the same school. Praised for the school council, the well behaved courteous children, the excellent friend's of the school fund raising and parent helpers in every class

lol, do you know my daughter???
We don't have a Nursery class so not the same school, but obviously similar. Ok, blinkers off.

The problem is that it can start off small in primary....
Yesterday I reproved some Yr 11 students for dangerous behaviour and asked them for the name of a boy who ran off. They refused to tell me and also were very agressive and dismissive and one made some very crude sexual suggestions. During the time I was following this up with home and management two people a MTA and a younger student ended up hospitalised.
I remember these boys in Yr 7 and they were sweet but cheeky.

I see boys in my ds's Yr 2 class who are never said no to and expect adults to laugh at their sweet cheeky ways as they are rude to adults and unkind to each other. I don't laugh and occasionally I reprove them when they are being cheekily rude to the horror of their parents who tell me they need to express themselves freely. There are no serious behaviour problems at his primary -it got an Outstanding OFSTED but I see the future....

I have loved teaching and have felt very responsible for the kids and they have got great results for me - but now I need to leave it behind it is all too painful sometimes

My children go to different schools. They are both happy, busy, excited by learning, treated respectfully and having fun.

And my ds's school got a rubbish OFSTED!

The problem is that parents don't recognise their childrens' poor behaviour until it is too late to change as it often doesn't look serious when they are in primary

I wonder how much of the bad behaviour is reported to the parents so that they can deal with it. If the parents are only told about persistently appalling behaviour that may get their child excluded, then the issues can't be tackled at home before they turn into ongoing disrespect and general rudeness.
How do the staff have enough time to report on behaviour incidents if there is so much of it going on? What could be done?

When I was at primary school years ago a 10 year old boy threw a chair at the female teacher. He was not excluded. He did spend some time later in borstal though.

We have had lots of cases where parents will simply not accept that the behaviour is an issue. Sometimes they will not attend meetings. This goes on right up to the point that laws get broken and then we are asked why we didn't 'do something'

I think you're absolutely right missymousie. We are often complimented on ds' manners but it has taken a fairly continuous combination of leading by example/discussing empathy etc/ticking off and sanctions/nagging/rewarding, for years
It can be hard work fostering a basic mindset of respect for authority figures while making sure your child's curiosity and ego aren't crushed.
To be perfectly honest I think it defeats a lot of parents .
But I do also think there is an unwillingness to trust teachers to do their job, and give them the home backing they need.
I really, really think the "no such thing as society" attitudes people grew up with in Thatcher's Britain has had a pervasive negative effect on people's willingness to see themselves as members of a community - in school, in their neighbourhood, at work

It does depend on the child though marina. I sometimes think we have done a better job with DS than DD. But then I sometimes think maybe we have been too hard on DS. But then tonight I saw him being mildly naughty - at a meeting at school regarding paired reading instead of sitting nicely in his seat he was getting up and lining up with a couple of classmates for a racing start to get the Captain Underpants books before anyone else and I (readaholic) was quite happy.

Less happy that the school's latest idea is that I have to read Captain Underpants outloud in unison with DS. And I will have to hide the book or he will not be able to help himself reading it all beforehand.

I agree with twig's OP although I think the title is maybe a tad harsh. And also her point re certain parents always being in school. I sometimes feel guilty that I never have anything to see the teacher about - like I am not taking enough notice of what is going on.

I suspect my DC's school has more than its fair share of pushy 'child centric' parents, but thankfully the children are in the main mannerable and well-behaved.

I have been on many school trips with the children and members of the public often complement them on their behaviour, which is always nice.

I wonder whether the small class sizes make a difference - perhpas less crowd control?

My DCs are more than capable of having their moments - but thankfully seem to have been born with an innate respect of authority. I would love to think it was my fantastic parenting but I rather think it is just in their nature to be that way.

I do have, what I consider to be, a professional relationship with school though. I am paying for a service and I expect that service to be of a consistently good quality. I don't duck the difficult conversations, but I am unfailingly polite in my dealings with teachers and other staff. I make sure they know when I think they are doing a great job, which is the overwhelming majority of the time, and equally let them know when I am slightly dissapointed!

I think the problem with some parents, is that they have never learned how to secure a positive outcome to a situation without being aggresive, which as all of us in service provision know, is the ultimate turn off and guaranteed to lead to defensiveness!

so right mb.

Tday I handed back year 11 maths test (exams in a couple of months). Top set, crap marks but of course..it was all my fault " you never taught us this miss" .

grrrrrrrr

don't forget ladies

If the kids do well, they worked hard, if they did badly, why its all teachers fault

twiglett i think you forgot to add in MY day I was beaten with the teachers broom licked the teachers car clean and didn't ever look the massa in the eye

children's rights - gawd N0, they might get fancy high floutin ideas that they are individuals worthy of respect. Pah.

bleedin hearts

what next female emancipation

Mmm Microwave, I think if the whole set got crap marks I might start to consider that my lessons were less than adequate

i wonder if behaviour would be improved if all school were girls or boys

!ok..slight exageration

We had parents evening last week and at the end of the meeting I said to his teacher - 'You've done an absolutely fantastic job - many, many thanks!' and the poor woman was flabberghasted! I suspect she may not have received much of the positive feedback that we so often ask teachers to give to our children

sea. I remember reading a while ago about a mixed-sex secondary school that had a trial of teaching classes in single-sex groups. The results were apparently amazing. Less messing around and the children still got the benefit of being with each other during break times.

it can't be that hard to split them up for lessons can it.

i only work in after school clubs but children are so rude all the time. these are primary. they all seem to want to prove themselves to each other so much younger.

Thanks Marina and congratulations on yr dc's lovely manners I sound a bit down and hopeless tonight but I would say that 75% of all the kids I know (and it must run into thousands now) from 0-19, from rich or poor backgrounds, single or married parents, good schools, bad schools and misjudged schools are kind and polite individuals with innate respect for others. Which most of the time they know how to express.

So it isn't all bad - it is hard work and you can't ever take a break from it but I reckon that if we parents try our best then our loved ones do tend to stay on track to being kind responsible happy adults. (who respect their teachers along the way hopefully )

Something needs to happen to help the 25% who've got lost along the way - I don't know what though......

I rememeber being 13, flodded with hormones and trying to concentrate while a boy I luuuuurved was sitting at a desk near me.

Must be easier if a child doesn't have that kind of distraction?

that was my downfall too bubble, it's so pathetic looking back

I find the idea of single sex schools really depressing tbh!

It reinforces the idea that the sex we are sets us apart from each other - widens rather than narrows the differences!

I liked and still do like, having boys/men as friends and feel I would have missed out on several important friendships growing up if I had been at a single sex school.

Yes. And what a waste of all the (good) teaching I wasn't receiving.

I'm sure this is why single-sex schools get the good results. To have the benefit of coed but with classes taught as single-sex seems like an obvious solution to me.

Shall I post it on the 'Talk to Dave' thread?