teaching is just buggered up isn't it?

[Twiglett]

with the mollycoddled brats who are brought up with no sense of respect for education or basic manners and the my-child-centred parents who believe that nobody is allowed to say boo to their kids

sad, very sad

I understand what you are saying twig, thankyou for answering.

I do actually believe that there should be much more respect generally for teachers and the like. I think it is shocking some of the things that teachers have to put up with and the attiitude of the 'you can't touch me' brigade.

I don't believe that teachers should use physical force, but then again neither should they ever have to, their word should be obeyed and that is that.

respectiely respectfully

What can teachers do now though?

can you sit disruptive elements in a corner?
can you stand them outside the door?
can you send them to the head, give them detention, refuse to allow them in your classroom?

Couldn't agree more Twig. When I was at school if a teacher asked me to do something I did it. I have children in my class (aged 6yrs) who will blatantly ignore my requests time and time again until I have to really tell them off before they will comply. I shouldn't have to and I don't like to but it happens all the time. Such a waste of my time and a waste of the other children's time to have to keep stopping teaching to discipline children who simply do not know how to behave.

What a dismal thread this is Doesn't really help me feel happy about my children going to school. Making school sound a crazy place to be and doesn't sound as though anything has improved since I went to my secondary school.

We aim for a lot of parental contact and parents are regularly invited in to be with the children in class to better understand how it all works. Many of our parents have no experience of the English school system and some had a bad experience themselves....

We send letters home or make a phone call if a child breaks the school rules and the parents are meant to follow it up at home.

We hardly ever exclude because we found that children were sometimes roaming the streete and sometimes breaking rules on purpose to be able to be excluded.

It feels useless sometimes.

A four year old in the nursery class was disrupting story time by hurting other children and the teacher said go and sit there where the other children don't have to see your silly behaviour to which she replied "Well they will hear me!" and picked up a chair and smashed it off the wall...NURSERY!!
Daddy said she was having an off day...

YOu can sit them somewhere else in the classroom (which I do alot, it's amazing how much better some children work sitting on their own). You can also put them outside the classroom but there's not much point in this at my school as it's so open plan.

yes.....but they will argue the toss for ans long as they can and then continue to disrupt from the corner of the room
yes.....we can, but at that point the kid isn't being educated, which isn';t ideal for him/her even if it is a whole lot better for the rest of the kids in the classroom
Yes....we can move them to a sixth form lesson. But see above. And the minute that they come back to the class the whole sorry mess starts from scratch

FWIW I don't have a lot of hasstle from the kids and I am generally seen as 'tough'. they know the rules and they tend to stick to the biggies. I also have a reasonably good relationship with most of the kids I teach, which is helpful.

But the silly, petty disruption does your head in after a while. You see a parent will wonder why you get so fed up because the kid constatly talks and answers back. What they don't ealise is that you probably have a class full of them! And that he kids who most need your help in teaching and explaining don't get it, because you spend half the lesson getting them to do some work.

I once had a mother tell me that her son wanted to do A level Biology and was upset whan I told her that tis wasn't going to happen because A. her son wasn't going to get a C at GCSE because B. he would do no work at all unless I stood behind him for the whole lesson. He was 16 and NT. She seemed to think that I could do this, stand behind him, and forgot that I had the rest of the class to teach as well

juule- why does this thread make you feel about schools? What we deal with is only the beginning of the sort of behaviour that prevails in society.
I love teaching; I love children and work in an outstanding school. But what I see doesn't augur well for the world that my children will live in. What will happen to the chair throwing child in the future? When she has another "off" day

MrsZ - My dd (4 and in reception) had a bed drop off in week three (ongoing saga) and was very angry with me for leaving her and with the teacher and TA for making her stay. She didn't want to join in story time and refused to sit down and then proceeded to stamp the whole way through 'so no-body else could hear it' (her words). I hope the difference is that I was mortified!!
This wasn't even reported back to me my the staff. Dd1 told me herself.

Mrz I mean, sorry.

bed bad

It was the fact that daddy thought her behaviour justified that I found unacceptable.

I love my job and I love the children I teach and have taught but I do despair sometimes at the behaviour some parents accept and condone.

Good. My dd is challenging in the sense she tests her boundaries (and struggles with her temper ) but when she knows the boundaries she is generally quite good at sticking to them. She has settled nicely now, thank goodness.
I really think we are lucky with our parents at my dd's school but this board opens my eyes sometimes .

As a teacher you always take into account that you are working with children. Work in progress, not the finished article. So only a fool would expect perfection.

But as you say MRZ it is the parent condoning and excusing poor behaviour that irritates.

For lots of reasons, not least of which is that they child isn't going to improve on their behaviour is they see no reason, and if their parent doesn't teach them appropriate behavior

but can you tell him that's unacceptable .. the father I mean?

is it ok for a teacher to say this behaviour is unacceptable and you need to take it seriously

seems to me you're not even allowed to do that

blame culture

and to compound the problem soem SMT don't back up the teacher either.

My SIL teaches in primary and has a lad of 8 who bites (no SEN diagnosed EBD on his IEP).And bites hard enough to make the blood run. He bit his LSW. the head let him play computer games for the rest of the day.

What message does that give the lad?

Robinpud, can you really not see why I might be unhappy for my child going to school? Why would I be happy that she would be in a class where the kind of goings-on described in this thread happen. Where chairs are thrown around, where a great portion of lesson time is lost to rude and disruptive children, where teachers are trying with varying degrees of success to keep everything together, including themselves?

. 'kin hell MB.

Juuule - Not all schools are like that though. Ours isn't from what I have seen (helping out once a week) and from their Ofsteds.
Some sadly are though. It can feel a bit hopeless I agree which is why we have to try to teach our children how to behave and hope they get the message.....

Beacuse for most of my classes these things don't happen. because my year 7s left the room today telling me how much they had enjoyed their lesson.

But when it does happen it is tiresome.

If you looked at the post on MN you'd never dare get married or have kids, would you?

Because it is all there, wife beating, stalking, infidelaty, out of control kids, depressed mums.

The worst gets talked about because it is the worst, not because it is the most common.

The school with the chair throwing child was judged outstanding by OFSTED and it is but this is increasingly part of a teacher's work which parents aren't aware of.

juule- of course I can see why you wouldn't want your child to go to school, but my point is that you wouldn't want them not to be part of society. The behaviour children exhibit at school is simply is a mirror reflection of the behaviour they see outside of school. It is not confined to any socio-economic area or class. We don't believe in anything or anyone these days and kids know it.

Robinpud, I'm not sure why you think that my not wanting my child to go to school equates with not wanting her to be a part of society.
I would however, consider there must be a benefit to my child and society to not send her somewhere where she would be subjected to or be influenced by this type of negative behaviour. And wouldn't there be a risk of her beginning to exhibit such behaviour as a mirror reflection of behaviour seen inside the school. At the moment my child doesn't see such behaviour outside of school.