teaching is just buggered up isn't it?

[Twiglett]

with the mollycoddled brats who are brought up with no sense of respect for education or basic manners and the my-child-centred parents who believe that nobody is allowed to say boo to their kids

sad, very sad

twiglet are you calling my son a 'mollycoddled brat"?

That's excellent MB and I think sums the situation up. We have consciously decided to make sure DD is grounded and part of the family/world and not the centre!

How many of the posters on this thread are teachers or work in schools?
Just out of interest ... BTW I'm a teacher and agree with the title.

me and yes.

FWIW, I don't think that teaching is totaly buggered but the small pervcent of kids who don't behave have a dispropotional negative effec in the schools, and for their peers.

Twig- I agree with you.

Whilst in theory most people profess to expect that standards of discipline should be upheld and maintained in schools, the reality is that most are quick to defend their child at all costs, without taking time to reflect on the overall impact of their actions.
As a result, it is impossible to set and maintain good standards of behaviour at schools; too much time is spent appeasing parents and children and parents erode the values of society.
I look at the children in the classes I teach and wonder when they will ever be expected to learn self control. Their parents don't model it and they don't teach it to their children.
Like RL Mumsnet is so often full of people complaining about their child' teacher/school etc. A small number of them are entirely justified sadly, but a huge number are just worrying illustrations of the sort of erosion that is a part of life today.

It's not a particularly articulate post because I am shattered by the vain attempts made to try and instill some sort of sense into the liveliest bunch of 6 year olds I have ever had to teach.

This makes me even more anti school than I already suspected I was.

If the teachers are so damn miserable and have their hands tied so badly, I don't want my children to be taught by them.

I'm sure the greatest teachers cannot be as effectual as they should, in a situation like that.

Something has to change. Teachers need to be allowed to teach well, and kids need to be respectful - but respected as well.

It seems like everyone involved in schools is unhappy.

tell me flight, do you think I should have to waste 10 minutes of my time getting a 13 year old to clear up a mess that he made by throwing food?

How much respect do you think he showed me? Answer, none at all.

If he wants my respect he can start by behaving in a resonavle way. I behave well, I deserve the respect. I'm not so sure tha he does.

And before you say , I was polite to him. But I don't respect him, he acted like an idiot (and he is NT btw)

I've seen children kicking and hitting their parents without any reaction. If they behave like this with parents is it any wonder they find it difficult to follow rules and do as they are asked in school. 3 year olds arrive in our nursery class and are shocked when they are told NO for the first time in their lives.

I love my job. I really, really, really love it.
I love teaching. I do not mind a little bit of social work. I do not mind a little bit of nursing/health visitor work. I do not mind acting in loco parentis.

I do mind being the only person in the child's life who is trying to teach them right from wrong. I am sooooo booorrrreeeeed with my job at the moment. 50% teaching 50% behaviour management.Some parents are not pulling their weight at my school.

The 'reason' given to me for the food throwing incident was 'He threw food at me yesterday'

Ah, so that makes it all OK then.

And the number of children (and this is secondary remember) who will not put their rubbish in the bins in the dining room has to be seen to be believed. and the answer they give is always the same, 'THat is the cleaner's job'

Sigh.

I also love to teach, I just don't really see why I should need to prod kids constantly into reasonable behaviour and to actually do some work.

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/7286123.stm

I trained as a teacher but couldn't hack it, there is no way I would take that kind of abuse for that level of pay.

I hope that I teach my dcs to respect their teachers.

No MB I didn't mean it like that. I was just making a wholesale statement about an ideal world

There should be respect both ways - this of course would require good behaviour both ways!

I don't think you should have had to waste your time on that, no. I assume he is the product of dubious parenting possibly, but you never know unless you know iyswim so I don't want to judge the lad myself.

I think it's awful that committed teachers are working in unhappy environments. I had some brill teachers myself and know how worthwhile the effects on children's lives can be

I work in a college, and every year am more astounded by the 16/17 yo FE students.

An example from last week:

FE tutor sent a group to the library to each find a picture in a book that moves/amuses/inspires/revolts them, photocopy it onto acetate in order to show it to the rest of the class.

Tutor has to round them up from the bar/cafeteria as they don't bother.

Tutor brings them up, spoonfeeds them around the library until they have all found a picture, amidst loud Kevin the teenager whining "this is shit", "the library is wank" "fuck this is like, so lame".

Tutor herds them to the photocopiers and programmes them so the students do not have to pay for the copies.

Tutor then mentions they will have to pay a few pence for the acetate. Cue chorus of swearing and refusal to pay, which she very patiently responds to with the logic that they will own the copy, it will belong in their portfolios and be part of their final assessment - "and come on, it's less than the price of a drink".

Tutor (eventually) loses rag and tells them to shut up and get on with it. Grudgingly they quieten down, but start texting each other and sniggering (until I tell them to switch their cellphones off in the library).

Tutor leaves them to it, and they just about manage the task, bitching about what a "stupid fucker" the tutor is.

No one has put a gun to their heads, they've chosen to come here. Apparently they all want to 'express themselves'. Jeesus.

Sorry - my point was - if that's how they come out the other end, what the hell are they like going in? What on earth has gone wrong in between?

I work in secondary & I do think there is a lack of respect & manners from a lot of the kids.
I was shocked at Septembers intake - many of them don't ever seem to bother to bring pens/pencils to school (surely that's a basic requirement ??), they scribble / doodle all over their excercise books & seem to have no pride in what they do. I can sort of undesrtand this as they get older - but Year 7??!

A favourite thing seems to be to say to me "Have you got a pen?" to which I always reply "yes thankyou" & I won't lend anything out unless I get a please.

Kids continue to carry on their conversations when the teacher is talking, thinking that the request for the class to listen doesn't include them.
This probably makes me sound like a grumpy old woman - but I teach my son manners & I would be horrified if he didn't use them at school.

Kittywise .. no I definitely am NOT calling your particular DS a mollycoddled brat. However some of the answering posts on your thread, the ones you felt were supportive, just struck me as symptomatic of a huge issue that I can perceive with some modern-day parenting, not all of course .. but have definitely experienced this from other parents and thought OMgoodG

Oh and the 'They are just not being stretched' line.

I love that one. That one can just run and run.

'S/he isn't working because s/he isn't being streched'

So you give the child some more challenging work.

'I can do this, I don't get it'

'what don't you get?'

'this'

'Well you read the text and then you answer the first question'

'But I don't know the answer'

'It is in the first paragraph'

'Look I'm not stupid! I'm not doing this work it is shit'

Repeat ad nausiam

Cali - that's a cool clip

Mine aren't mollycoddled either Twig

Well maybe the baby is...

"kids need to be respected" .. my big fat hairy arse they do!

They have to earn respect by behaving well and respectiely and with manners.. as do their parents in some instances.

MB - that sounds sooooo familiar!

And then there is the 'pay cut'......

The concept of "fitting in"

Might as well be rocket science