Teacher left my ds1 wet all afternoon - what would you do?

[Greensleeves]

have just picked ds1 up from school

he says he wet himself "in between lunch time and afternoon fruit time" and the teacher noticed he was wet - it was his turn to do something on the computer and she said "you can' sit on my lap, you've wet yourself" and he said "OK, I'll sit on the chair next to you then". She didn't change him or ask him to change himself or anything, and has sent him home still wet.

This teacher has had ds1's reception class just since half term, his original teacher went on maternity leave. He's being investigated (for want of a better term) for possible ASD and has an IEP, she knows all of this and thinks he has ASD (she told me this, shortly after the original teacher brought the subject up)

I did think she was quite kind and wolud be fine with ds1, although he was very attached to his other teacher. But a couple of things have upset me a bit - little things really. For one, when I took him in one morning recently when he was in one of his difficult moods, I was trying to talk to him and he was rocking and looking away from me (just being a bit silly, nothing terrible!) she said "Oh, he doesn't change, does he?" really harshly and then told him off in front of me.

Also ds1 really played up about going back to school this morning (we've been away for the weekend) and said his teacher didn't like him, his name was always on the board, he has no chance of ever being one of the good children and there is no point in him trying

His other teacher was strict with him but I don't think he felt disliked or demonised by her.

Am I overreacting? And what should I say? I am sitting here about to ring her and ask about the leaving him wet, but I don't want to alienate her, and I'm not sure what I should say.

Prof - sometimes I think I DO overreact - I get very upset about anything negative to do with ds1, because I am just a bit sensitive about him, although less so lately than I have been in the past. We've just had a long weekend away during which he has been utterly delightful, really enchanting. I've really enjoyed him and hardly felt cross with him or consicous of his "differences" at all (partly because we were visiting friends who know him and understand how he is!) So it was a bit gut-wrenching when he started nail-biting and fussing on the train home saying he was scared about going back to school and his new teacher doesn't like him. He hid behind the cupboards instead of sitting with the other children this morning. And then I went to pick him up and he was wet, and confused, and subdued.

I don't know tbh - sometimes I think I am not overreacting At All, Definitely Not - I am just fighting his corner and trying to do my best for him.

But then I read my posts/think about how I must come across to others (especially the school) and I see this obvious caricature of garrulous adoring narcissistic mother whose badly-behaved ill-disciplined brat is making everybody else's lives miserable.

How do you tell which is the truth?!?

Greeny, we all get a bit precious over our DC's at times, but I think you know in your heart that even if you have overreacted at times (not that I know if you have) having a child who says they are scared to go to school and then collecting them discovering they are wet is going to put anyone at ill ease.

I think you need a proper face to face meeting to discuss what is happening, why he is not happy, and how you and the teacher/school can work together to do what is right for him

Please don't shy away because you feel they think you're being OTT. They are dealing with huge numbers of children, you only one so of course you'll see it differently to them, it's going to be more concentrated to you.

With luck and perseverance hopefully it will be sorted, a child should not be afraid of school, no matter what the situation.

x

Thanks VS I think I am going to have to be very non-threatening and conciliatory when I see her in the morning, and try and push (gently!) for a proper IEP meeting.

that seems sensible gs. do you find this very daunting? my ds is still small but already am having to be assertive on his behalf just to get a place at pre-school. not the most fun part of motherhood!

Also he said the teacher noticed when they started to work on the computer.

I would not have though part of their getting ready for hometime routine involved sitting on the lap of the teacher (which is a little odd in itself) to work on the pc. (although not being a teacher I have no idea of lesson/work plans)

So I feel the 'It just happened' may be an overstatement.

Not trying to inflame, as I sure don't have any useful advice, but...

Does she not have a teaching assistant? I thought lone teachers had to have a sign to put on the outside of the door to ask for help? How would she have coped with an accident of another variety (either vomit or injury)?

I'm not suggesting you ask her these at all, but just what went accross my mind as I read the thread.

just one thing to bear in mind - would your ds be happy about letting someone else help him get changed? I only ask as ds2 used to wet himself occasionally in nursery (has ASD) but refused to get changed so would still be wet when I picked him up , but it wasn't for want of the staff trying ....

I know how you feel about wondering how you come across to other people - partly cos it can be very difficult for people who don't have much experience of ASD to understand what's bad behaviour and what's part of the condition

hope your ds feels happier about school soon

When ds2 has wet himself right at the very end of the school day, the TA has still helped him to get changed before going home. He never comes home in wet clothes, even if it means having to wear his PE shorts instead.

How did it go this morning greeny?

More whining from me I'm afraid

I had a perfunctory word with her this morning, she was pretty swamped (some of the January intake are still crying when their parents' leave in the morning, bless them) but nothing of substance.

I went to pick him up today and was called in and told that he had had to be taken to the head of KS1 and told off by her (a la 'what do you think things would be like if we didn't have rules, if you don't follow the rules other children won't follow them' etc), apparently he "cried and cried", and the teacher said to me "no doubt you'll hear from him how hard and horrible we are, but we really feel it's best to be hard on this behaviour, school is for good, he needs to learn" etc....she also said things like "bear with me" and "please don't be cross with me, I am just doing what I think is right"

she also kept tempering every damning comment about his behaviour by saying something about his reading and writing, and she said several times "he really has a lot going for him, lets try to concentrate on the positives" which just sounded even more damning somehow. She had the TA there on the other side of me, who kept nodding and smiling and making reinforcing remarks.

the teacher is very 'naice' and gently-spoken, lots of floaty hand gestures etc, but she has this flinty look in her eyes when she talks about his behaviour, I really think she is determined that he is going to toe the line at whatever cost, and he is not going to disrupt her class - she said she feels annoyed because he isn't one of the children in the class whose need is greatest?!? and she seems obsessed with the idea that this hardcore of naughtier children are going to take control of the class unless she stamps on ds1.

anyway, on to what happened this afternoon - she said that at some point during the afternoon ds1 had covered his ears and refused to remove his hands or listen to her. His version of this (yes, I know, he's 5 and he knows he's in trouble - look, pinch of salt!) was that he couldn't stand the noise of the other children, he couldn't understand what the teacher was saying because it was too noisy and he just wanted to cover his ears and drown out the noise.

She and the TA both said they didn't think he was wet today (he was in the corner with a book at this point), that they had both checked him etc etc. I checked him once we were out in the playground and he was sodden. Although he might have done it while he was waiting for us to stop talking.

I feel very unhappy about how all of this is going, although I can't put my finger on what's wrong or what I want to be done differently. Half of me wants to just pull him out of school altogether. Can anyone help me organise my thoughts on this?

[makes things worse]

see, I think there is something in what ds1 said about not being able to stand the noise - he DOES find lots of loud confusing noise difficult, he always has. If the teacher were more sympathetic I would suggest something like a code word whereby he could take a sensory time-out when he started to get wound up - just a couple of minutes on a designated cushion in the adjoining playroom for example. It would actually make HER life easier if he could be given a way out so that he didn't end up backed into a corner and behaving badly. But I think that sort of suggestion would just be taken as me being an outrageously indulgent and self-important parent and not accepting that my horrible rude child is ruining life for 29 others.

I have used things with him before such as a 'calming-down song' (this worked reasonably well when he was at nursery, although it wasn't a cure-all!) and a 'worry stick' which I made out of a wooden peg, some coloured ribbons and a few little bells - it just seemed to help to take him out of the situation for a few moments and help him re-centre himself [hippy drippy idiot emoticon]

I do not feel good about him being at school at the moment.

My ds finds lots of noise difficult to handle to greeny. He's fine when its him making the noise though He doesn't really have any sensory issues other than finding it hard when its noisy and crowded. He'll put his hands over his ears to block the noise out too.

She knows that he's being investigated for possible ASD but still thanks that he's being naughty for putting his hands over his ears when it's noisy?

Tbh it sounds as though she's going for a one-size-fits-all approach even though it's obviously not working. Is the SENCO approachable? You've done your best to sort the issues out with the teacher so it might be time to try the SENCO instead.

If you downloaded some basic info about ASD or sensory overloads etc from the NAS website, would she read them?

Ds1 and ds2 both have headphones at school for when it gets too noisy. Ds1's teacher says that when he sees ds1 put them on he knows the class is getting too noisy and quietens them down.

poor you and poor ds. the school do not sound very supportive at all.

you are either going to have to take it up with the head or could you find another school/home educate? what are they doing about his ASD diagnosis? what are they going to do to help him?

have to say if it was my ds i would seriously consider pulling him out of school

((hugs))

I have JUST had a call from the local children's assessment unit to say that his consultant paediatrician appt is next Tuesday at 9.15am, they have had a cancellation

What will happen at this, does anyone know? I imagine I will turn up having written everything down, spent ages organising and marshalling my thoughts onto paper and trying to articulate background/behaviour, and will then get called in and talked at for 6 minutes and sent on my way with a smarmy smile

tell me I am wrong, please!

Greensleeves, in many ways your ds and his expirience with school sounds like my ds (who is also in reception).

His teacher is very sweet and has this butter wouldn't melt exterior but for reasons I can't explain, I know she does not like either ds or myslef. Other people who perceive her as sweet just would not believe me.

I have seen her turn her back on ds when he is talking to her, refuse to look at something he has brought in especially to show her, tell ds off for talking when he was one of a group doing it and not mention it to the other children.

Ds is now labelled as naughty and it is breaking my heart to see the bright, vivid little boy I had before school become more and more quiet. I have of course spoken to her about it, but I feel that she has made up her mind and I do not know how to change it. I too would say that I worry about coming across as a blinkered mother of a would-be genius and I think all parents have a natural tendancy towards this. However, in my objective heart of hearts, I know that there is an issue between her and my son.

I do not know how to deal with it either but I am proposing to ask that she keeps him off the school's equivalent of your board as it is now having a negative impact on him rather than helping with discipline. Could you ask about this - if the point of it is to achieve something positive in relation to behaviour, when it is manifestly failing, surely they should see the logic in stopping.

Don't have much practical advice, but lots of empathy.

Our paed is great. He always listens to what i have to say and treats our input as being as valid as that form other professionals involved with him. I think our meetings tend to be about 15 mins but the first one was definitely longer. Write everything down that you want to say

Oh and good luck with it Its great news that its come through so soon.

Our first appointment with the Paed took nearly an hour. You should be asked lots of questions about your pregnancy, the birth, ds' development in general and what his difficulties are. There were toys set out and the Paed observed ds while talking to us. At the end they usually tell you if further assessments are needed.

Good luck with the appointment.

Greeny, sorry you are having problems. I do know how you feel about coming across as a pushy, over-bearing mother who can see no wrong in her child. I worry that I am like that sometimes and have learnt to back off and pick my battles.
I think you have to decide whether the school is ultimately supportive of you and your ds.

When I was teaching if I had a child who put his hands over his ears I wouldn't have gone to the head, I would have seen it as failure on my part as a teacher.

She sounds rather wishy-washy and inexperienced to me.

Why not see how the planned meetings go, see how confident you feel about his future there and investigate pother schools if you need to, good luck

Greeny good news about the cancellation. (Although not good about the situation in school)

I would call the clinic and ask how long each appointment is and what to expect. Then, if it is only 6 minutes, you can plan which bits you want to discuss first. I always make a list - ticking it off when we cover each point - and take in my file which contains all info about when smiling, sitting, crawling, walking talking etc and major illnesses and meds etc because you can be sure than when I am emotional and stressed I won't remember!

All the very best for Tuesday, it is only a week away. Perhaps your DS could be 'unwell' for the rest of the week if you really feel this teacher is victimising him and it is actually making the situation worse.

Thanks for all the support. I do feel a lot like just pulling him out of school, but I think I need to resist that urge for now.

GooseyLoosey your post made me shiver. Poor you and your ds. It's devastating to think that a child's whole personality and future could be altered because one teacher doesn't like him.

oops! namechanged for different (inocuous!) thread - Greeny here.

I know, its an awful thought isn't it. As there seem to be a few parents with boys in similar situations, I decided to try and start a support thread over in primary education to see if anyone had any ideas. I don't really want to go down the route of pulling him out of school, but am at a loss as to what else I can do.