Told my 4 year old is behind at school

[dual90]

So yesterday we went to parents evening at my DD school. I kind of knew it wouldn’t be all that positive because a week before we had been invited into the school to view one of the classes. My DD was not her best that day, crying and clingy. I noticed she was being placed at the front of the class which I know isn’t a good sign! I come from an education background- so I’m well aware of certain words like ‘interventions’ etc.

My DD is one of the youngest in the class, so she’s on the bottom 5th age bracket as she is a summer baby. The teacher just seemed to focus on the negatives, but threw in she plays well and is happy! But then launched into she’s struggling with the learning and is not ‘retaining’ and information! I did challenge her on this as at home she makes all the sounds for phonics and recognition letters. She’s also been deemed as bright in nursery and counting to 20 since she was 2! She’s interested in numbers and counts a lot and she’s been doing this for a while. She then says she didn’t recognise numbers, again we challenged her on that too as she does recognise them at home. She seemed a little baffled and kept saying she was ‘behind her peers’.

For a start I thought most learning in reception was play based and we would t have this kind of pressure this early only 4 weeks into term and being told she is not matching up! I did say to the teacher that developmentally there is going to be huge differences in learning just by the sheer difference in age for some of the children, she firstly agreed with that then contradicted it by saying she has other kids the same age who are coping fine. But we still said she seems to be doing fine with these things when she’s at home. We also have no idea what it is she is supposed to be learning. She says she’s in a small ‘intervention’ group. I find this concerning that this is already happening and quite worried she will be pigeon holed straight away and this young age. She had never had a problem learning and nobody had flagged this before, in fact I’d say the opposite. Her speech is better than some children that are 2 years older than her. I had reservations about sending her this year anyway, I felt she may not be ready but she really wanted to go. I also am slightly dissolution ed with whole school system anyway, so for me it’s sadly confirmed many reservations I’ve had. I do not want her to be off as a 4 year old and she’s already had a very tough start in life.

The teacher says if she doesn’t catch up now the gap will get bigger, I found this a very negative thing to say. I know in other countries they don’t even start this stuff until 6 or 7? And they do just fine. But straight away the pressure is on. We will try and help her catch up, but just this morning after the teacher said she didn’t recognise numbers we nearly filmed her doing it as she recognised them all!! And she has done for a long time. I did point out to the teacher that she just doesn’t know the name of the game yet and that she needs to know these things, so it’s more immaturity than anything else.

any thoughts or advice

Tangentially, I just don't understand why schools do not recognise the massive age differences within their class year and how those might (/definitely do!) impact learning and behaviour...child development is their job, and yet they seem to view all kids as exactly the same out of her starting blocks. If the expectation is that they should all be at the same level, then surely a graduated start should be introduced based on age. However, surely it would simply be easier to take a holistic view of each child and understand that a just turned 4yo is VERY different from a nearly 5yo?? I mean, it happens year after year after year...

What with this and several other threads about schools, I'm just so bewildered and sad about what is happening in our education system.

I had that conversation in year 1 at about the same time of year. DD is a late August baby. I was told that “she didn’t get it.” My daughter was at the time a top reader in her class, reading books well beyond her age and able to answer pretty difficult questions.

What I did:

• continued to read high quality children’s literature with DD instead of the utter crap sent by school.
• focused on numbered bonds and timetables in maths as she had a good memory. This has meant that she started excelling in maths in year 2/3 when she was more ready for it.
• got a tutor for handwriting as teacher seemed unable to teach joined-up writing (when asked about the method she used, teacher told me: “I just tell them to attach the letters” while making a vague gesture in the air)
• asked to see the SEN coordinator when teacher continued to piss me off. She backed off immediately

So my advice would be to keep on top of it at all times. Don’t panic and ask for a second opinion (SEN coordinator, tutor for example, another teacher).

All the best.

This sort of thing makes me wonder why on earth we don’t leave more formal learning until children are 6or 7, as they do in certain other countries - when they’re that much more ready for it.

When they’re still only 4, it should surely all be very largely play-based.

Honestly op

I get that's it hard to go in for a parent teacher meeting and be hit with words like intervention so early in the term. Of course it feels like a shock to you coming out of the blue. Having said that the Uk system in general is not all play based for reception kids ( it should be) but it's not and I think it's a good thing that the younger kids or those that are finding it harder to grasp concepts are getting a little bit of extra time /support. This is absolutely a good thing and I'm sure you're daughter will catch right up in time.
Next year she will have a new teacher who will look at her with fresh eyes. She won't be labelled after a couple of weeks in primary school!

I agree OP s judgement has become clouded by a comment that has put measures in place. On one hand she has admitted that her child isn’t performing at school in the way she is at home and is young for her age so a teacher is going to act accordingly and ultimately in the best interest of the child. I think OP needs to let things be and try and see the positives in the process instead of taking it as an insult.

We set up summer born Dc to be behind if we always treat them as the babies of the class. My DD1 was summer born and she was miles away from being behind the older Dc. Ahead of many. Being taught as individuals makes sense but baseline assessments are useful or how do you understand individual attainment and plan accordingly? I don’t get the angst about assessment. Parents can delay Dc starting school. The op had a choice of school. Lucky position to be in.

Some children learn to read early almost by themselves. I’ve been amazed at what some Dc can do at 4. Much more then counting to 20. Not quite sure that this shows more then memory anyway. It’s not true that Dc in other countries don’t read early. Bright ones will. Often education is tailored to the individual and Dc are not held back that are ready to learn. Also the op is here. Not anywhere else. Private school do assess. As do private nurseries. In fact private schools have assessment tests to get in! At 4.

My youngest, undiagnosed ADHD and dyslexia and dyspraxic. We never did homework and he didn't read a book until he was 11.

With DA at home and a sibling with autism I felt home was hard enough work.

He now has a politics degree and his ADHD diagnosis came after he completed it.

She's a baby. Most teachers talk in sound bites and I would not even worry about it. Let reception be learning through play, year one comes soon enough.

The teacher is ridiculous, the system starting school at 4yo is ridiculous. /In my country they start school at 6-7 years old./
Sorry you are experiencing this.

I’d imagine she’s not demonstrating what she knows because she’s nervous or shy or overwhelmed. I had the same with my boys. Oldest got 98% in his practice maths nat5 (GCSE) yesterday. Middle child is in top set in secondary. He particularly had labels such as autism and learning difficulties and behind etc. to try to explain his anxiety in school.

This is why I am not a fan of education in England, the push to have them where they are not ready emotionally to be is ridiculous. I have a small child in primary in Scotland and it’s so different here in a rural community at least

Agree with this and all other similar comments.
It makes my blood run cold to think of four-year-olds being assessed on formal maths, reading/phonics etc.
The teacher may be experienced but she sounds clueless, contradicting herself. I guess, looked at charitably, she's under pressure from a system where it's all about measurable results.
I'm glad I don't have kids for this reason.

@celticprincess The OP already said her DD can count up to 20 and do some phonics.

This indicates she had formal learning at her nursery.

EYFS settings are suppose to do formal learning. I'm aware that the nursery my friend sent her kids to specifically had a pre-school class for those who were going to school the next year.

My DD was at 2 smaller settings so while she didn't have that but she did have formal learning. In fact she had lots of 1-2-1 attention which she doesn't get at school.

Statistically, summer borns are behind their peers all the way through education up to 18. That doesn't mean some of them won't buck that trend, but it's certainly true that the majority struggle more than their peers.

DS is summer born (August), we chose to start him at 5 rather than 4 because we had the choice to. I'm sure he'd have coped at 4, but he absolutely thrived at 5. Have a look at the campaign for flexibility for summer borns on Facebook, it's a really helpful resource. Sounds like the teacher would support it. You could let your DD have an extra year at preschool or nursery before restarting Reception at 5, which is (statistically speaking) definitely in her best interests longer term.

OP I don't think you can win any way round! My experience sounds quite similar to @Wafflesandcrepes. I worried quite a lot of the way through Reception but have now come to the conclusion that the education system is bat so relaxing a little more in Yr1. My summer born started school able to read CVC words, accelerated through reading bands in Reception, less able at writing and maths but in the normal range. Quite immature in some ways when starting school (at 4.4!) but independent and generally well behaved. Rather than celebrating any of this I was told at the first parents evening in YR, 5 weeks in, that DC was very able but 'we want DC to be like x, y, z'. Basically describing a confident person nothing like my child. Also had issues with being distracted on the the carpet. Same for second parents evening. Has to be reminded to listen etc. Poor writing constantly mentioned along with potential future issues with 'accessing the curriculum'. Now in Y1 handwriting has improved a lot, because errr DC is not 4 any more, and seems to be 'accessing the curriculum' very well. The expectations put on 4-5 year olds and their parents is frankly ridiculous. OP if you think your DC is capable, and sounds like she is, I would wait until she's matured a little before letting the school jump to any conclusions.

Is it a private school, OP? Because I do think pressures in those can be different.

A private boys’ junior school near us is a ‘feeder’ for a couple of very highly sought after senior schools, that select via exam for entry I think at 13.

It was quite a while ago now, but a friend’s little boy of no more than 7, no SN, was considered not up to scratch for the next year of the school, and she was asked to find another school for him.
I was frankly utterly appalled.

What academic information do they need to contain st that age? Surely it’s more about development at 4.

If your DD was heading into year 3 and they mentioned she was behind on learning, then I would understand.

I have a friend whose daughter is born in August but she was very behind and she had to invest in a tutor to make sure that she caught up.

I think primary schools should take into account that there is a significant different between a 5 year old and a 4 year old even though they are in different age groups, but an 8 year old and 9 year old are quite similar.

Ask the school what they are doing about it.

My DD had to do interventions in year 6 (shes one of the oldest) but it was to push her as she was on the brink of a higher grade. Maybe find out more about the intervention and make a decision on if that is what your DD needs.

Both of mine are youngest in their class- my 12 year old was always ahead and just clever- my youngest (8 years old) is considered to be a year or more behind and is being assessed for dyslexia. I think the summer baby thing is both relevant and irrelevant- it really depends on the child. I dont think covid helped my youngest either. The focus on endless maths and english is hard when you are a creative child. I am looking very differently at the whole school system when it comes to my youngest.

Well this is exactly my thinking, but we are trapped by a system. And I do agree with the education system and what is happening to it. Although I do worry not much has changed since I was at school!

OP, she doesn't seem ready. Can you take her out and start reception again next year?

They're not 'writing her off' ffs, the absolute opposite. Writing off a child would be just noticing they're behind and doing nothing about it or assuming they can't progress and are beyond help. Noting that there's a potential problem is the first step to doing something about it. Of course OP and the teacher should be working together to try help DD but honestly people would complain if a teacher didn't notice someone's child was struggling/behind.

Actually it would be really helpful if you could expand on how they do it in your country. I lived in several other countries and even in Asia where academics are highly valued formal education still doesn’t start until 6.

I know they still have nursery schools, and they still place huge emphasis on things like maths and science. But again I feel we may be trying to compete with these countries.

I have a few friends from Scandinavia and I know for a fact they do t have formal education until 7 and of course children can be encouraged to read but it’s not pushed this early like here. They see the child as an individual and things like forest school is encouraged at this age. Sadly I seem to be contradicting replies on this, but this would be helpful to know.

I agree they are not writing her off and we will work with the teacher to help her. I guess my post was really about being taken by surprise by we were having this conversation this early. I really thought we’d be talking about how she’s settling in and finding school.

Can you start her again aged 5? Is that possible?

I have a summer born and he was almost a year younger than his circle of class friends. Emotionally / socially it was obvious. My DC wasn’t behind academically but I did feel he needed to work harder and socially he was shy and insecure about sports, if I could I would have definitely held him back a year.

I was told that all of my DC were behind at some point. Maybe they were, but I knew they were bright. Biggest shock was when I was told that the one I believed was my little mathematician was struggling with maths at age 11! And was told he'd never get it.
He got A stars in his maths and further maths A levels. He has a maths related degree and at 21, he earns probably twice what that teacher earns.
I hate the way that we pigeon hole kids in the UK. If I had the chance again I wish I'd home schooled through primary.