Page 5 | Dangerous behaviour towards my son

lavendermouse · 04/10/2023 09:42

Have you mentioned to the headteacher in regards to calling the police?
Your son is being physically assaulted and the school aren't doing enough to support him.
I'll be honest, if this was a child who was not neurodiverse , I'm sure an awful lot more would be being done.

Original poster

wednamenov · 04/10/2023 09:50

lavendermouse · 04/10/2023 09:42

Have you mentioned to the headteacher in regards to calling the police?
Your son is being physically assaulted and the school aren't doing enough to support him.
I'll be honest, if this was a child who was not neurodiverse , I'm sure an awful lot more would be being done.

I haven't yet. Today I'm chasing down safeguarding legislation. My DH is on a business trip and worrying about all this from a distance. Last day of school tomorrow before half-term then DS is home. DH gets back, and then we're going to try meet with the right person in the police so I make that warning from a position of certainty. I.E gather ourselves ahead of school starting again.

OP posts:

Original poster

wednamenov · 04/10/2023 09:53

Another note on the policy document. It says "Everyone in a school or learning establishment should feel they are in a safe and nurturing environment;".

Note the word 'feel'. So if they focus on DS's mental health, which the school have done (but I pushed for it), they can now argue he FEELS safe. Which is very different to he IS safe. I'm really quite stunned by all this.

OP posts:

Dumbndumber · 04/10/2023 11:11

Shocking, but not surprising. They always seem to protect the perpetrators in school.

My dd was severely bullied in primary school from the start, but because the bullies had difficult home lives, she was expected to suck it up and at one point they moved her to a corner of the classroom with her chair facing away from the bullies, so she didnt antagnise them with her presence as they couldn't be expected to control themselves and told her to not walk past their tables and to not even look at them.

We tried everything to get the school to take it seriously, but they simply didn't care. Everything was about the bullies and not the victim.

It got so bad, that in year 2 we moved her to a school 15 miles away, but it has affected her for life, even though we did all we could.

I really hope you're more successful, and that your DS is OK. 💐

Dumbndumber · 04/10/2023 11:12

Their reason for bullying her? She was different. That's it. She was quiet and had some speech difficulties at that time, so they thought she was weird.

Ohthatsabitshit · 04/10/2023 11:24

I don’t think the focus on the other child is helpful or productive. You need to focus entirely on your child’s safety and well being.
Does he feel safe?
Does he know how to report if he feels unsafe?
Does he have a clear understanding of what to do if this child behaves violently towards him again?
Does he know what to do if another child is targeted?
Has he learnt from the situation? Does he have confidence in the solutions provided?

Original poster

wednamenov · 04/10/2023 11:53

Ohthatsabitshit · 04/10/2023 11:24

I don’t think the focus on the other child is helpful or productive. You need to focus entirely on your child’s safety and well being.
Does he feel safe?
Does he know how to report if he feels unsafe?
Does he have a clear understanding of what to do if this child behaves violently towards him again?
Does he know what to do if another child is targeted?
Has he learnt from the situation? Does he have confidence in the solutions provided?

I disagree. How can he report being unsafe in the middle of an unpredictable attack? Why should the emphasis on him feeling safe be a the solution when the solution is clearly preventing the attacks in the first place. My son is 8. He is not responsible for ensuring he is safe. Adults are.

OP posts:

MichelleScarn · 04/10/2023 12:08

Ohthatsabitshit · 04/10/2023 11:24

I don’t think the focus on the other child is helpful or productive. You need to focus entirely on your child’s safety and well being.
Does he feel safe?
Does he know how to report if he feels unsafe?
Does he have a clear understanding of what to do if this child behaves violently towards him again?
Does he know what to do if another child is targeted?
Has he learnt from the situation? Does he have confidence in the solutions provided?

Sorry I don't understand.
Does he have a clear understanding of what to do if this child behaves violently towards him again? the adults responsible to keep him safe don't have a clear understanding, how can he?
Does he know what to do if another child is targeted? why is this his role?
Has he learnt from the situation? hes probably learnt school gives not a jot anout him or his welfare.
Does he have confidence in the solutions provided?
What solutions?!

Flyingfup · 04/10/2023 13:39

wednamenov · 04/10/2023 09:05

What I've learned is that our council does not have a safety policy in their education department. The 'Inclusion Policy' doubles as the safety policy. You can see how addressing risk within the context of 'inclusion' shifts the focus from the victim to the perpetrator. I've never been a fan of the SNP, but not so much that I get worked up about it. But this document is a bit absurd.

For example, the word 'risk' appears first in the context of teachers using force against a child. "The use of force against another person constitutes an assault" - so risk, here, is to teachers if they use force. It can be used if "the young person is or is about to present a danger to other people" or if there is a risk to property. It interests me that they avoid words like risk, or threat in relation to a person, but not an object. Again, I think minimising the fundamental principle of safety.

Then this: "Seclusion is regarded as a punitive approach." and "Seclusion should not be used in X Council educational establishments." To further specify what seclusion means ...

Terminology with reference to practices involving various forms of seclusion include:-

time out, exclusion, segregation, seclusion, safe-space, chill out room, de-escalation room, quiet room, calming room, garden time, solitary, inclusive exclusion

So a child who kicks another in the head during PE cannot be 'excluded' from PE.

The emphasis is very much focussed on keeping kids with behavioural issues fully included in all school activities, with not much reflection on impact of behavioural issues on other children. The absence of a discussion of risk avoids any grappling with the consequences of this policy.

I don't think my son can be kept safe using the education framework, so where do I turn next?

Show quote history

OP, this is shocking and the points you make are important. I would look at speaking anonymously with a sympathetic investigative journalist (who will handle the subject sensitively) working at the national level (so the school/those involved are not identified). The policy has some major gaps and is unlikely to change until there is a tragedy. This situation is likely to be playing out in many schools, to the detriment of all involved.

Ohthatsabitshit · 04/10/2023 14:53

wednamenov · 04/10/2023 11:53

I disagree. How can he report being unsafe in the middle of an unpredictable attack? Why should the emphasis on him feeling safe be a the solution when the solution is clearly preventing the attacks in the first place. My son is 8. He is not responsible for ensuring he is safe. Adults are.

Show quote history

That’s exactly the point though, THEY need to work out what he should do, because if they don’t the children will have to. This is their opportunity to make inclusion a positive thing in their school not dangerous chaos. THEY need to demonstrate clearly that all of this is going on or ds is being failed.
Obviously this will involve more staff focus and careful monitoring….and if they can’t then it needs highlighting.

MyGooseisTotallyLoose · 04/10/2023 14:56

@Ohthatsabitshit am a bit confused as you're asking what the ds has learnt from being assaulted and what he would do if another child was being assaulted?

Ohthatsabitshit · 04/10/2023 15:06

Well if it was my child (and it has been my child) I would be making sure that he didn’t think he ever deserved to be attacked and how to defend himself/remove himself from harm, and I would want him to know how to get help for a friend without intervening because he ‘s 8 and a horrible thing happened.
I think these questions need to be answered. It’s not about blame it’s about pulling what you can from a totally shit situation.

Original poster

wednamenov · 05/10/2023 07:36

Ohthatsabitshit · 04/10/2023 15:06

Well if it was my child (and it has been my child) I would be making sure that he didn’t think he ever deserved to be attacked and how to defend himself/remove himself from harm, and I would want him to know how to get help for a friend without intervening because he ‘s 8 and a horrible thing happened.
I think these questions need to be answered. It’s not about blame it’s about pulling what you can from a totally shit situation.

I think this is basic parenting. I think you're missing the point. We're further down the line and trying to address ongoing risk to his safety. My son, or another child, could be seriously injured. If the school are unable to prevent this then how can he?

OP posts:

Ohthatsabitshit · 05/10/2023 07:46

I don’t think I was suggesting he prevented anything. I was suggesting the school put in place a plan for what they want him to do, not leave it to him to figure out. I’ve been much further down this road with my own child and was genuinely trying to help. However I can’t see this is a productive use of my time. I really hope you resolve it all and ds has a safe happy rest of year at school. Good luck.

curaçao · 05/10/2023 08:38

wednamenov · 02/10/2023 11:54

Two weeks ago my son was attacked by another child at school (primary). Viciously.He came out ok, but honestly, it was serious enough that if a blow or kick had landed slightly differently an ambulance would have had to be called. His attacker is autistic, so it's not his fault and not about bullying. However, despite adult supervision, this happened. Basically, the child is very fast and very strong. In the two weeks since, my son has been attacked twice more by the same child. The second two incidents he was shoved to the ground. My issue is that despite the fact we were so lucky after the first incident that it wasn't so much worse, and despite awareness at the school and adults present, this child has made aggressive contact twice more. I have expressed my fears and stated the impacts this is having on my son in very clear terms to the school. I don't believe they can guarantee my son's safety even if they do their very very best. What do I do next? How would you handle this?

You do realise that the staff probably dont want him there any more than you do, but have to be very careful in today's litigious society.They have to have a watertight paper trail and enough evudence to prove they have tried all reasonable adjustments but cant keep everyone safe, incase the parents persue a disability discrimination actuon

Original poster

wednamenov · 05/10/2023 08:46

Ohthatsabitshit · 05/10/2023 07:46

I don’t think I was suggesting he prevented anything. I was suggesting the school put in place a plan for what they want him to do, not leave it to him to figure out. I’ve been much further down this road with my own child and was genuinely trying to help. However I can’t see this is a productive use of my time. I really hope you resolve it all and ds has a safe happy rest of year at school. Good luck.

I understand and apologies if I was snappy. I read the first sentence of your previous post as a direct criticism of me failing to do critically important parenting. I'm not in a headspace now where I can hear that, especially as have done all of that and I am monitoring his welfare very closely.

OP posts:

Original poster

wednamenov · 05/10/2023 08:48

@curaçao - I'm hoping thats the case, because I like all of the staff enormously. But it's weird how the fear of a discrimination case overrides the fear of facing legal consequences for the death or serious injury to a child.

OP posts:

BreatheAndFocus · 05/10/2023 08:48

My DC’s class had a very similar situation. The school had a huge number of complaints and were forced to act. They had the 1 to 1 remain within a certain distance of the child at all times; the child didn’t have the full break times outside but spent some inside with 1 to 1 (this reduced the chance of the child getting wound up); the child spent more time out of class (attacks happened in the classroom too). It’s greatly reduced the problems.

OP, the answer is to insist the school remove opportunities for the child to attack your son and others, not ‘make them feel safe’. Yes, I’d mention legal action too as they’re failing in their duty to safeguard your child. It’s their responsibility and shifting focus onto the child is wrong. It wouldn’t matter who the child was or their background. The school should be taking measures to protect the other children.

umar123 · 21/07/2024 21:51

ForTheLoveOfSleep · 02/10/2023 12:56

I had the same with my daughter in year 6 who became the obsession of a child with violent behavioural issues. First the teachers made her sit on the support table in class (despite her having no SEN herself) so he would be calm. Made to play with him at lunch to keep him calm but he wouldn't let anyone lese play with them. I knew noting about any of this. When she finally told me I didn't realise the seriousness of the situation and just told her to say "I don't want to play with you today Billy". Big mistake. He attacked her. Had her on the ground and was punching her in the head. Bearing in mind this kid had had least 2st over my daughter. My daughter was the one who was told to stay home for a week while the school set up some safety bounderies. Not the boy who attacked her because his SEN meant he had to be in school and the school had no way to keep her safe. After several meetings with the school, which I had to initiate, plethora of incidences were uncovered where my daighter just hadn't told anyone or had been fobbed off. His parents just didn't want to know. "It's not his fault." Following the assault he was kept away from her and she was told to run to a member of staff if he got near her or run to the office for help if she couldn't find anyone outside. She didn't want to move schools but she was always by the dinner ladies at lunchtimes.
The kid was finally expelled when on a school trip in front of several staff members, parents and the whole class he tried to push her on to the train tracks at our village station. Despite being held on to by both his mother and the teacher. I was very clear that I was contacting the police, DoE and OFSTED just to cover my bases.

My daughter spent 6 months in counselling, which at £40 every fortnight which was a lot for us as a low income family (under £30k) but was so worth it.

There is no excuse for violence towards your child OP. SEN is not a free pass to assault people. If the child is unable to control violent behaviours alternative forms of education need to be seriously considered. Whether that be a special school, 1-2-1 with no unsupervised access to peers etc.

And before someone says ableism I have a severely neurologically disabled child with ASD, ADHD-combined, GDD (age 8 but functioning at 18 months), SPD and EDS who attends a specialist school.

Edited

Omg that is traumatising. He would have been arrested if he was at least 10 years old

rainbowsandsparkles86 · 22/07/2024 08:19

Escalate your concerns. Write a formal complaint and say that the school is failing in their duty of care to safeguard your child, ask for a meeting and for this to be followed up in writing with the steps the school are going to take. If there's another incident, escalate to the Governors and keep going.