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Primary education

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Dangerous behaviour towards my son

120 replies

wednamenov · 02/10/2023 11:54

Two weeks ago my son was attacked by another child at school (primary). Viciously.He came out ok, but honestly, it was serious enough that if a blow or kick had landed slightly differently an ambulance would have had to be called. His attacker is autistic, so it's not his fault and not about bullying. However, despite adult supervision, this happened. Basically, the child is very fast and very strong. In the two weeks since, my son has been attacked twice more by the same child. The second two incidents he was shoved to the ground. My issue is that despite the fact we were so lucky after the first incident that it wasn't so much worse, and despite awareness at the school and adults present, this child has made aggressive contact twice more. I have expressed my fears and stated the impacts this is having on my son in very clear terms to the school. I don't believe they can guarantee my son's safety even if they do their very very best. What do I do next? How would you handle this?

OP posts:
JemimaTiggywinkles · 02/10/2023 13:06

The fact this child is autistic skews everything.

Just noticed this. SEN diagnosis in another child has absolutely zero bearing on the school's legal duty to keep your DS safe.

Pugfin · 02/10/2023 13:07

I agree with others that both children are being failed by the school here, the other child evidently isn't getting the support that they need but they have a duty of care to ensure your child is safe at school too. I'm not sure of the processes in Scotland but I hope you manage to escalate this and they can put something in place to keep your child safe.

Figgygal · 02/10/2023 13:25

Make a massive nuisance out of yourself now
My ds was relentlessly harassed with physical and verbal abuse from the last term of y4. Child under assessment we felt sorry for them and the schools hands were tied due to a prat of an exec head and the system generally. We were too passive and it went on and on death threats, spitting, every name under the sun, numerous assaults even after separation and supposed 100% supervision. we ended up getting the police involved as once they got to y6 and this moved online as they got phones we had had enough and even the school encouraged. Never came near him again after a home visit from the police which showed it was nothing to do with his diagnosis but him being a nasty little bustard.
I'm furious at myself we didn't create hell at the time.
Id say involve Governors and local authority, keep your own records as in our case the school wouldnt release theirs even after a subject access request.
Good luck

wednamenov · 02/10/2023 13:48

Thank you all so much. Honestly, I shocked myself by nearly bursting into tears at your feedback. I'm not being a nasty cow towards a child with vulnerabilities. It's not me who is responsible for whether he stays in the school or not. I've been feeling like his future is on my shoulders.

So far all my communications have been with the school. I think my concern for the autistic child, and his poor parents, and my acknowledgment in emails that this is difficult all around, may be giving the school too much room to wiggle. I'm pissed off with myself. It's a small community. @lunar1, your comments really corrected my perspective.

So far all my communications have been very very clear that I don't think they can keep my child safe. I now need to write and ask for a detailed plan of the measures they have put in place to keep my child safe. And focus only on that.

I think the kid with behaviour issues might be ten years old. DS is 9 and the other kid is in the year above.

I'm trying to work out who else to contact. I might start with my local councillor and ask for names and processes.

OP posts:
lunar1 · 02/10/2023 13:53

If the other child is 10 you can call the police on these incidents.

It sounds like the school are trying to guilt you into silence, your child is just as much the school's responsibility as any other. In your head, and in communication with the school, make the details of the other child irrelevant.

Your DS counts, his safety is important, and he is equally entitled to have his needs met. I hope the school will support him and keep him safe.

ohsuzannah · 02/10/2023 13:58

I hope you get it sorted out OP 💐

Alopeciabop · 02/10/2023 14:09

Fuck that. Kick up an almighty fuss. Your kid is not there for another kid to work their emotions out on. End of. It makes no difference WHY your kid is getting attacked. All that matters is that he IS getting attacked. Refuse to send him in. And personally I’d be worried that he will not feel protected by you if you do continue to send him in. Would you keep going into work if there was a possibility one of your Co workers would continue attacking you? Honestly who would think this was on your son to just take it because this kid is autistic? These teachers are insane.

Noshowlomo · 02/10/2023 14:18

Agree with @Alopeciabop my stomach sank reading your post.

Alopeciabop · 02/10/2023 14:21

Alopeciabop · 02/10/2023 14:09

Fuck that. Kick up an almighty fuss. Your kid is not there for another kid to work their emotions out on. End of. It makes no difference WHY your kid is getting attacked. All that matters is that he IS getting attacked. Refuse to send him in. And personally I’d be worried that he will not feel protected by you if you do continue to send him in. Would you keep going into work if there was a possibility one of your Co workers would continue attacking you? Honestly who would think this was on your son to just take it because this kid is autistic? These teachers are insane.

Just to be clear though I’m not saying you have done wrong by him by sending him in - it’s an impossible and horrible situation - just that I would be worried if it were me that he might look back and feel like you should have stopped him going in.

JemimaTiggywinkles · 02/10/2023 14:23

These teachers are insane.

IME the classroom teachers will be desperately hoping that you kick up a massive fuss because they know it isn't okay but the Head is insisting that it'll be fine.

Sheselectric22 · 02/10/2023 14:27

I have just dealt with similar but the other child isn't autistic but dies have medical needs. My child is the one who is autistic but she's non violent and a soft little thing. Anyway I went absolutely nuts when she pushed my dd almost down the stairs. There had been many incidents of violence and her parents just could not accept it.

I asked for a meeting school. This was with the head, the sendco and the support staff. I made it clear that I am escalating to the local authority, ofsted (as a wider public side in school), the police, my mp and I also said il get legal advice and n the basis of discrimination because for a long time they tried to dismiss it as my dd misunderstanding due to autism.

I asked how she can misunderstand being physically assaulted?
Would they come to work knowing they will be assaulted often?
Would they think this is ok for their child?
How they plan to keep my dd safe?
I sat and waited for the answers which they couldn't give.

I then quoted their own bullying and behaviour policy and showed them a draft plan of behaviour management that they themselves have printed in the policy.
I made it clear that it is not to be my dd who is kept in etc as that is a punishment and unfair as she is the victim.

I asked that we have weekly meetings to check the plan and review it.

I said if another incident occurs il be taking dd out of school and ringing the police. They can then tell the LA why she is absent.

Anyway it's working for now. No more incidents have happened for a while and dd has said the other child is always being supervised.

Raise merry hell op.

SamPoodle123 · 02/10/2023 14:27

wednamenov · 02/10/2023 12:13

Sorry, posted too soon. Who do I report the other child to? The school and teacher are very aware of what's happened and choosing to deal with it in the school. How, I don't know, because I don't have a right to know about special measures being put in place to address this child's additional needs. . I was told that the Headteacher had asked for her decision-making to be reviewed by the council- or something to that effect. I'm not sure I believe she escalated it, especially since this is all the last two weeks.

I'm thinking if a fourth incident happens (terrifying thought) that I call the police... I don't know what else I can do?

At what point do they think a child has experienced too much violence, or that the risk is too high?

I would report it to the police and ask them what is the best way or who else you could contact. I would also look to whoever is in charge of the school above the head. Perhaps ask the council if it is a state school. Just keep kicking up a fuss.

Sheselectric22 · 02/10/2023 14:29

Also there are bullying helplines and services you can ring for support if you need to. Google them x

huuskymam · 02/10/2023 14:33

You need to go above the school. Could you write to the board of education (that's what its called I Ireland, not sure about Scotland) and have them investigate the incidents and outcomes, telling them you're not happy with the results and you need them to push the school to make it safe for your child.

LaBellina · 02/10/2023 14:46

You only have a responsibility towards your child OP. Maybe I’m too harsh but I couldn’t care less what diagnosis or problems another child has, as soon as he becomes a threat to my child’s safety, I want that solved and I would become a massive PITA until it was solved by the school. If it meant having to involve the police, I would have done that without thinking twice. I know what it’s like to feel unsafe at school, I know what it’s like when both the school and your parents fail in safeguarding you and right now that’s one of the reasons I have PTSD from the bullying and I am no contact with my parents, this is one of the things I can’t forgive them. Please protect your child.

Mariposista · 02/10/2023 14:48

Your poor poor lad. This makes my blood boil. Inclusivity is fine, but when the other kid is putting others in danger or disrupting a normal learning pattern, I am totally against them being there. As for 'where they should go?' well that is hardly your poor injured son's problem is it?

LaBellina · 02/10/2023 14:51

As for 'where they should go?' well that is hardly your poor injured son's problem is it

exactly. Caring about other’s kids is noble but not something that you can afford yourself in this situation.

Fahbeep · 02/10/2023 14:51

Sorry this has happened OP. First and foremost, the situation is about safeguarding. The school may think it's inclusive, but a lot of schools hold this opinion of themselves while actually having limited appreciation and capabilities with autistic disability. From what you describe, the school is not handling provision for either child well at all. I am speaking as a parent of a primary age child with ASD/ADHD, who had a propensity to lash out when overwhelmed in the school environment in reception and Y1. The solution was a fully funded TA via an EHCP, and adjusted expectations on the autistic child so that baseline anxiety reduces, and hopefully distressed behaviours recede, so no lashing out. The bit people don't get is that the distressed behaviour is a function of the disability when the school fails to manage the environment. The snap instinct of some parents of other children (not you OP) is however to treat theses situations as moral issues about discipline, assuming the autistic child has some choice or control over it, and then demand punishment. This can put schools under incredible pressure. Many autistic children and their families then suffer horrendously from school exclusions, and social isolation with debilitating lifelong consequences including financial. My point is to say you don't have a problem here with an autistic child, you have a problem with a school that isn't supporting either child correctly. When you complain, and do complain, make that the focus or the school may pin it all on the autistic child to avoid responsibility for situations for which they are to blame.

Ohthatsabitshit · 02/10/2023 14:51

what is triggering these attacks and are they focused on your child or are many children effected?

wednamenov · 02/10/2023 16:14

@lunar - Yes, that's the clarity I've just received. I've sent an email now stating I don't think my child is safe and asking for details of what additional measures have been put in place to keep him safe. I've noted that adult supervision hasn't worked because two of the tree incidents occurred while adults were present. I pva asked her to explicitly acknowledge, in writing, that my primary concern is that this child's explosive unpredictable table violence can cause life changing injuries to a child. In the first incident my son was punched in the throat, and when he fell to the ground winded, he was kicked in the head.

@Alopeciabop - I understand and said as much in an email. I said that if I had been subjected to that level of violence, no one would ask me as an adult to sit day by day next to my abuser because that would be traumatic. But that's what they're asking of my child. I also pointed out that even though the second incidents were 'shoving', my child will always be aware of the potential for it to be much worse, and that's traumatising. His teacher has spent a lot of time with him after that discussing what happened, promising him he'll never have to sit at the same table as this kid, and he's been given a token to use to signal he doesn't feel safe and needs to leave the room. I think his Expedia's validated by that, but I shouldn't have had to push for it. Thing is, if I took him out of school he might experience the same at the next school.

@JemimaTiggywinkles - I desperately hope so. I love the teachers. They're all amazing. I'd feel awful if they thought I thought that THEY were letting my child down. I think they're doing their very best. The head ... I can't stand her.

@Sheselectric22 - your list of things you asked, I've done just that. I'm avoiding phone calls or meetings because I want it all in writing. I'm going to see how the head responds to my latest email today, but if it's not satisfactory (and I don't see how it can be), I'll warn her if it happens again my first call will be the police. And then I'll start escalating it with my councillor etc.

@LaBellina - Yup. I've experienced abuse as an adult and worked with rape survivors. I referred to this in my contact with the school. Told them I knew without doubt my son would never forget this experience his whole life.

@Fahbeep - Yes, it seems all the school can do is try contain the child, and monitor and watch. I don't see how that prepares him for life as an adult at all. I just don't think the teachers have the time or skills to meet his needs.

@Ohthatsabitshit - the first incident occurred because the child was running around constantly say 'fuck' loudly while playing football. As far as I am concerned, this is the point he should have been taken out the room ... or even the moments before he started swearing. The school had drilled into children that they needed to try address issues themselves before involving teachers. So my son said 'stop swearing x'. X instantly turned, throat-punch then swift kick in the head before adults pulled him off. (School have told all the children the6 shoukd not challenge kids who are neurodiverse 🙄 - like there's a sign, or something). I don't know what triggered the second incident. The third was because they were playing football and he wanted the field position my son had, so he simply ran over and aggressively shoved my son out the way to take it.

OP posts:
wednamenov · 02/10/2023 16:18

Apologies for predictive text changes in my message! Thank you all for your very helpful insights.

OP posts:
Ohthatsabitshit · 02/10/2023 16:59

Why on Earth have school told children to police each other’s behaviour? That sounds totally inappropriate and given the presence of disabled children frankly horrible. I would want that changed immediately. Find out what happened in the second incident. Has ds been doing any other correcting?

Fahbeep · 02/10/2023 17:59

If the child was running around saying fuck uncontrollably, and the adults didn't recognise that he was overloaded, and failed to intervene, then what happened was the result of their negligence. Anyone with any real understanding of autistic disability would have seen a risk of lashing out coming a mile away. Inclusion isn't pretending that there is no difference and throwing everyone together and suppressing complaints. Inclusion is supporting the children so they can have positive interactions, which isn't happening here. The problem with the simplistic approach to inclusion is that it results in the opposite of what is wanted, negative interactions, division and resentment. Im sorry you are going through it. Hopefully the school will improve their provision for the sake of all.

JemimaTiggywinkles · 02/10/2023 18:14

The school had drilled into children that they needed to try address issues themselves before involving teachers.

This is so risky for the school! Like sometimes it is best if kids try to resolve their own issues (eg what game shall we play today) but other times it is vital they tell an adult immediately (eg violent or aggressive behaviour). For kids aged 9 or 10 it is incredibly difficult for them to distinguish between when to tell an adult and when not to - I teach secondary and even older kids really struggle to figure it out!

Tbh, I'd tell my child to always tell a teacher if they're worried about something and to either tell a teacher or just not get involved if another kid is being naughty. I'd never advise a primary aged kid to monitor the behaviour of a classmate.

lunar1 · 02/10/2023 18:21

I hope school respond to you quickly

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