If your child did the 11+ did they get GD in all the SATs papers?

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I'm just curious. There seems to be an unspoken rule amongst the parents I know not to discuss SATs results which is fine by me but it means I can't ask anyone irl.
My DS didn't do 11+. Unfortunately he's the kind of child who you have to coerce and bribe into doing any work so 11+ was never going to work! A few of his friends were tutored solidly for 2yrs. Most but not all got into very good grammars, which is great for them.
But it did make me wonder about how those kids found SATs. It was painful trying to get my DS to do the practice papers (which I tired to do more for getting him into a routine with homework ready for yr7 rather than because I thinks SATs are important). He did minimal work but lucky enough to get GD in maths and reading and just missed it in the SPAG paper.
I'm assuming then for the 11+ kids SATs we're just a walk in the park?would they obviously all get GD?

No truly not standard here - both into a superselective grammar, and not something I've heard of friends doing either!

Where does it stop . If you're into a cycle of restricting access do you do that lol through secondary too as they've not learnt intrinsic motivation?!

I was posting in a knee jerk reaction in surprise that's how anyone would do it to be honest. Did you do it every day? One "practice day a week"? Doesn't sound much fun.

My DD did the 11+ 2 years ago, passed with a very comfortable margin, same with the grammar school entrance exam, no tutoring but we did some practice papers a few weeks before, quite light hearted, she was working at ‘greater depth’ for all core subjects and achieved this in SATs too. Year 7 she flew through at grammar achieving highly, year 8 was a little more Challenging and I expect she will level out in year 9 as it’s gets a bit harder and her social life a bit more interesting 😂

lucky she is a bright kid, doesn’t need to push herself too hard which is evident in her grades tbh, but to keep it up she will have to push herself a bit more in the next few years

Sats had heaps of writing, maths working out etc, the 11+ didn't as far as I remember from the practice book. So very different. DS struggled with writing and showing working as he did it in his head.

Don't think working out is needed for maths marking. Correct answer will do, the only difference is multiple choice (CEM) vs wiring the answer down (SAT). Working out answer in head can still do well for SAT maths.

Maybe he was told to show working (in case the final answer was wrong?) which would have slowed him down significantly, he wasn't good at thinking what to write down as 'working' at 10. I don't know really. He hadn't learned much of the SATs grammar either and wasn't used to writing joined up. Don't know what the difference was but he did find the CEM test easier.

My dd passed the 11+ and is going to grammar school in September. For her Sat's she got 100 in Maths and 112 in English (expected for both but presume was close to greater depth for English).
We are a bit worried about the Maths result - I can see that she may well struggle in Maths at grammar. Her teacher did say the Maths score was lower than he was expecting so perhaps she just had a bad day. Several children who didn't pass the 11+ did better than her at sats. I do think that maybe she has stopped trying so hard at school once 11+ over and done with.

My Y6 DC passed grammar tests in 2 different areas and also got a place at one highly selective independent sch (top 20 in UK) which it turned out we couldn’t afford even with a bursary.

His sats results were 116 English 110 maths. Science was at expected level.

We did no SATS prep or homework after the 11+ exams.

Yes, they do. Maths might need a bit more if it's a good year but if it's not then 105 will be fine.
One DC was 115 on Maths and 103 in English but didn't get into grammar (swears they're pleased they didn't) the other did 110 Maths and 108 on English and did. Was IQ'd at grammar and was placed in top 5% but, apart from spotting they're dyslexic, did appallingly in grammar!
The secondary school DC went onto 6th in grammar but other DC left after GCSEs.
You can't tell how they're going to cope.

We are not a grammar school area but my children did 11 plus entrance exams for selective independent. They both scored over 118 on everything with no additional preparation and my son in particular was waiisted for some schools so i would say SATS are way easier. I would say if you are not GD then selective secondary (whether state or private) will be a push.

Is GD over 110 for the scaled score? We were just given the numbers and “AS” for achieved standard. The entrance exam DS sat for the local super selective depended entirely on the score for the GL verbal reasoning paper; if you didn’t score high enough for that (DS didn’t) then they didn’t mark your maths and english papers.

DD got 112/108/107 in her SATs, which is OK and must put her into the top quartile overall as an all-rounder. No tutoring and it's more or less what I expected.

But she didn't get into any London independent schools at all. She applied for six, and none of them were super selective. We are totally baffled.

@EmeraldFox - if you have lots of grammars in your area, then it's not super selective. Super selective is where there are hardly any grammars in the area, and there are hundreds of applicants for each spot.

110 maths, 116 English , 115 SPAG
Expected writing. Going to Grammar school

DS didn’t do them as he was in year 6 in 2020 but his teacher assessment was GD in maths and reading and expected in SPAG, based on his practice tests in January. So who knows he may have reached GD in SPAG by May. He’s wasn’t tutored though except by me in order to figure out how to do the tests as he only decided to do the 11+ 3 months before the test date 🙈. He’s now pretty average in his grammar school but I consider that to be excellent especially as he’s dyslexic.

DD1 got GD in all the SATs. We don't have grammar schools where I live but she was offered academic scholarships in 2 local private schools.

Not necessarily. In Kent there are loads of grammars, and a few are super selective, as in they need to score a very high score on the 11+ to get in.

There is no distance criteria for places, applicants travel from out of county. I think I read that grammar places are around 10% of all state secondary places, not 25% like I've heard they are in grammar counties.

Town crier that depends a lot on whether the high one was spag.
as the other marks if reading and maths are top 28percentile to 33 percentile approx. So about 1/3 of kids higher in each. Though true will be lower who get that in both.
im sure most selectives are looking for higher than that. bear in mind that the reading is several marks down this year (so s caked scores are probably a bit odd, but maths needed about 2 marks fewer to get exceeding too.

DD passed the 11 plus with a high score last year with home prep and is at super-selective grammar. She got 120/120/116 (maths) in her KS2 SATs and the school didn't push them hard for SATs and she didn't do any practice at home. She is a typical bright, compliant, school-suited child that got GD for every academic subject all the way through primary school.

I would say yes, DD did find the SATs a walk in the park. They are quite different from the 11 plus though, because the 11 plus is a speed test (well, the CEM paper test was) and you don't have to write down your working out, whereas SATs involve written work and there is loads of time, comparatively.

I'm sure plenty of children are heavily tutored for the 11 plus, resulting in some only moderately bright children getting into good grammar schools. I dare say a fair few children are also tutored for SATs, resulting in artificially high GCSE predictions.

@Wenfy said:
"Also the exam board matters. People may say there’s no difference between GL and CEM and if you’re private primary educated or have an unlimited budget for 11+ prep there probably isn’t. But for kids from less privileged backgrounds (who like my neice might need to prep herself)GL is much, much easier to prepare for as there are more resources and the exam strategies are extremely clear It’s why many state grammar schools who previously switched to CEM are going back to GL & why at some grammars kids who narrowly fail but are on free school meals or have disabilities can secure a place over those who pass."

Actually, the reason nobody uses CEM paper-based, computer marked 11 plus tests is because CEM no longer produces them! CEM now only offers computer-based tests.

DS's school has since switched to GL but was CEM when he sat the test. What kind of strategies do you mean? We are low income so I just got him a practice book, that seemed to be more about familiarisation with questions than strategies. I don't know the differences between the tests, just made sure I got the right book!

It's interesting, I've been comparing CEM and SATs maths online and I personally find the CEM easier. There seem to be more questions with a story or where you have a picture in your head, not just numbers. This is just from a brief look so I may be wrong. DS was always quicker at story questions than the same question just with numbers.

Multiple choice are also easy as if you have 21 squared you only have to do 20 squared is 400 and pick the answer that is slightly more than that, and ends in a one if they were being super tricky. You don't have to do the proper arithmetic.

DS's SAT scores were all in the 105-110 range and he was fine at grammar. He's doing math, FM, comp sci and physics A levels now.

I think some kids can definitely be heavily tutored and coached through the 11-plus even if they’re only moderately bright, but generally I’d expect those who breezed through the 11-plus would also breeze through SATs?

Im glad to hear some grammars are more willing to make room for those on FSMs etc who narrowly pass over others… our local comp is 33% kids on FSM, whilst the grammar (literally streets away) is 2%! So many people pay loads for tutors.

Arethereany - not quite true, superselectives are those which have no catchment.
Two key differences between 11+ and SATS are that speed is critical in the 11+ as is a very large and accurate vocabulary, so let’s of practice and being a keen reader of decent books really helps.

Do people really put that much pressure on their kids for sats? We weren't even given the marks when my kids were at school, just their level (4 was typical, 5 was good, you needed to take special papers to get a 6 - dd1 got 6's in all 3, dd2 got 5 in maths, 2 in writing and 3 in reading, she's dyslexic and a late developer, she got A's at a level!!! This is why 11+ is a terrible idea) No grammar schools in most the country remember.