If your child did the 11+ did they get GD in all the SATs papers?

[oldoldieoldieold]

I'm just curious. There seems to be an unspoken rule amongst the parents I know not to discuss SATs results which is fine by me but it means I can't ask anyone irl.
My DS didn't do 11+. Unfortunately he's the kind of child who you have to coerce and bribe into doing any work so 11+ was never going to work! A few of his friends were tutored solidly for 2yrs. Most but not all got into very good grammars, which is great for them.
But it did make me wonder about how those kids found SATs. It was painful trying to get my DS to do the practice papers (which I tired to do more for getting him into a routine with homework ready for yr7 rather than because I thinks SATs are important). He did minimal work but lucky enough to get GD in maths and reading and just missed it in the SPAG paper.
I'm assuming then for the 11+ kids SATs we're just a walk in the park?would they obviously all get GD?

My DD did 11+ and passed with a year of tutoring and extra homework. Not a high score, but passed.
For SATS, the school prepared them very well but barely any homework. We didn’t get her to do anything extra. She got almost full marks in SATS and found it a walk in the park compared to 11+.

Yes, both DC were GD in Y6 SATs (and throughout school) and both got super selective grammar places.

As others have said, DC found SATs easy compared to the 11+, as SATs covered stuff that was taught and revised in school. 11+ covered different maths, had non verbal reasoning and much harder comprehension.

Yes my three dc who have passed 11+ were all GD on the SATS
it’s a fair indication that they won’t struggle in the grammar system and will cope ok

As others have said, DC found SATs easy compared to the 11+, as SATs covered stuff that was taught and revised in school. 11+ covered different maths, had non verbal reasoning and much harder comprehension.
DS found the 11+ easier, but then he had only two weeks of school in the UK before SATs. He had even attaining at a high level but in a different system. The 11+ was more things that didn't need to be taught, just some familiarisation with the types of questions in order for a bright child to do well.

The 11+ is not the same everywhere. We have a lot of people taking it in more than one borough and one is considered easier than the other. I know a few people who passed one and not the other and it's always the same way. Another thing is the time allowed. I know a child who was worried she didn't finish the local 11+ paper but got in the top 200 out of 5.5k. She went to a super selective in another area. The kids may feel more pressure to do well with the 11+ and may do a lot of preparation then because SATS are after and the pressure isn't on them it might feel easier anyway?

Dd passed the 11+ and got GD across SATS.

Yes.

Their teachers said SATs are far easier, and anyone who has done the work for the 11plus, doesn't need to worry.

Which we weren't anyway, because if you've passed the 11plus, SATs aren't needed for grammar anyway.

So it was nice for my girls. Zero extra work, zero stress (in fact we forgot it was sats week), and yes GDS throughout.

My neice got no higher than expected (raw score 75%) in her SATs but still passed her 11+ and got into a super selective. Single Mum who’s a nurse and despite my help still has a lot of caring responsibilities. But her 11+ score was in the top 1% of the county. Three other students in her class did similar - ie lower SATs and aced 11+.

4 of my friends’ kids got perfect SATs scores (one got 99-100% raw score in all papers) and yet didn’t pass 11+ for the same school. 2 of them did go onto to sit entrance exams and get partial scholarships into private secondary. 1 appealed - 1 failed. 1 got a place despite his narrow fail as he’s on free meals.

In fact, year 6 is kind of a nice reward for the dc who work hard in y5 to pass the 11plus.
A friend of mine, took her child out of school to 'home educate' for year 6, because they don't learn too much beyond what they've already learnt working for the 11plus. And they just had a year of lovely stuff (beaches/day trips/life skills/museums/city breaks/sport) before grammar school. (Slight risk when you don't get the results till October but she was fine!)

I really wanted to skip Yr 6 as its such a druge year especially if they've prepped for 11+!

But my child has loved the school play, residential etc... so I think on balance has been worth it.

Near perfect Sats scores and going to a selective grammar. From her whatsapp group most were very high scoring.

I think they're fairly easy if you did 11+ prep, so you already know it because of the prep.

Mine got 118 in reading, 118 SPAG, 116 maths.

Sadly due to huge competition in our local area, he didn't get into the grammar school his older brothers went to. So many more children take the exam now compared to even a few years ago. He did get into a nearby grammar school though so starts in September.

I think they're fairly easy if you did 11+ prep, so you already know it because of the prep.
I thought the SATs were quite different to the 11+? What prep do you mean? DS had an 11+ book but it didn't prepare him for SATs at all.

@EmeraldFox
11plus requirements differ completely from area to area. I didn't realise this as I came from an area where anyone from top table walked in to a grammar with no prep whatsoever, to a super selective area where dc definitely need to be having weekly tuition or just won't stand a chance of passing, however bright.
So, for some areas, there is a lot of extra work involved in year 5 to pass.

This is a good point. Where you are in terms of location may determine how bright your child is as 11+ pass rates in popular grammar areas often have much higher pass thresholds than undersubscribed areas.

Also the exam board matters. People may say there’s no difference between GL and CEM and if you’re private primary educated or have an unlimited budget for 11+ prep there probably isn’t. But for kids from less privileged backgrounds (who like my neice might need to prep herself)GL is much, much easier to prepare for as there are more resources and the exam strategies are extremely clear It’s why many state grammar schools who previously switched to CEM are going back to GL & why at some grammars kids who narrowly fail but are on free school meals or have disabilities can secure a place over those who pass.

2 kids in superselctives now, both did no prep at all for SATS as their school took a very relaxed approach and SATS papers far easier than 11+. Both GD in all papers. I did tutor for 11+, only because the papers covered work they would not have done in school and we kept it minimal. Eldest has completed yr 7 with flying colours so definitely in the right place. Hopefully next one will have the same experience.

@EmeraldFox for 11+ in our grammar area they had to know a lot of yr 6 maths before they sat the test in autumn yr 5 so they had already done most of the maths - so it was because they had already done the prep that Sats was easy, not some inherent brilliance from nowhere. They'd trained for it the year before in effect.

Similarly reading/comprehension was in sats and the other key part of their 11+. And having practiced all the verbal reasoning meant familiarity with words etc (even if the codes aren't directly useful to sats!)

I'd be amazed if any 11+ didn't include maths and English tbf, but I do know it varies.

Amd yes in our area quite a bit of extra prep is usually required to pass (mainly maths as it's a year early, and familiarity with verbal reasoning and a good grasp of reading trickier books.)

People saying 11+ is a completely different exam to SATS - it is and it isn’t. We’re not talking about a history exam and a computing exam for example. 11+ in most areas covers non verbal reasoning which I acknowledge is entirely random and unconnected to the curriculum. They also cover verbal reasoning which covers spelling, vocabulary, grammar etc - all taught in school even though the question types may be unfamiliar. Many also cover maths and English which though in a different format to SATS, are still the same skills.

I have been teaching in a prep in bucks for 6 years and have never come across a child who struggles with the normal curriculum in school (what would be tested in SATS) who magically does really well in the 11+, nor anyone who is very high ability on the normal curriculum who is absolutely dreadful at 11+ work. Not to say they all pass - of course anyone can have a bad day on the exam, but in general the correlation between high normal school (SATS type) work and 11+ prep is very high.

DD scored highly on her 11+ and got full marks on her SATs

We are in a super selective area, CEM test and didn't do tutoring. Though there are several superselective grammars around so maybe not as difficult as if there was one. DS did not find the test difficult but didn't get any GD on SATs, but as I posted earlier, was new to the country.

>Unfortunately, he's the kind of child who you have to coerce and bribe into doing any work so 11+ was never going to work

Most kids are like that. I use parental control (Qustodio) system and I bribe my son " If you do the homework from the tutor, I will unblock the computer and Roblox. So the sooner you do all your homework the more time you will have to play until 9pm"

It works marvels.

Wow I wouldn't have gone as far as to not let my child have their things unless they did 11+ prep!

My neice and her friends are in Bucks. The score differences are usually simply because the kids’ focus is 11+. Parents on MN are extremely disingenous and seem to like to ignore the fact that in any exam high marks require preparation and practice papers. The type of kids who can rock up, sit any exam without any prep, and pass with high marks is rare.

Also, CEM, as most wealthy parents know already is NOT tutor proof. It just requires a lot more £££ to pass as it requires more / specific tutoring.

This is really unusual I would say, CEM papers have a lot of common area with SAT test content.

Why not? It’s standard surely it you want your kids to do well.