Tiny school Vs larger school

[Stryke]

Hi

We are relocating and I need to look at schools in our new area. I have been advised that there are places in two schools.

The children will be going in to Y4 and Y6.

We have come from a school of two-form years. So 60 kids per year.

School A has one form entry, and is currently extra undersubscribed anyway.
School B has four, with currently only two places in each year we require.

There is no in-between.

They are near enough equal in other aspects. Provision for after school activities looks neat enough equal (larger school has slightly more choice, but I am hearing waiting lists. Both kids keen to do extra curricular dance and/or singing/choir).

Based on year size alone, which would you pick?

Thinking ahead... Will either school provide friends likely to go to the same secondary school?

I'd probably chose the bigger schol as my experience is there is more likely to be friendship issues in smaller schools. Not always true though.

Definitely the larger school unless your children are particularly shy.

The larger school. Larger schools are more sustainable, which could be important in the current economic climate. Ideally visit both before making a final decision.

Thanks for comments so far.

Both kids not especially shy, but not especially out there either.

The smaller school feeds slightly more to a secondary that we probably wouldn't pick (distance and religion), the larger has more going to our preferred choice for secondary, but obviously there are more kids at that school. But I don't know how important that is anyway - I keep hearing kids will make new friends in y7.

I feel very very torn. Like immobile with the inability to pick.

Why the larger one, unless my kids are shy?

Sustainable how. Sorry, not quite sure what you mean. Do you mean you think the smaller one might close down?!

I wouldn't describe one form entry as tiny by any means, even if undersubscribed. Around here 0.5 form entry is typical, and often the PAN equates to more like 0.25 entry! I find mumsnet very down on small schools, but the tiny (genuinely tiny) school I teach in had many, many benefits and the parents and children love it by and large. As a teacher, I'd definitely choose 1 form entry over four form. The teacher of a single year group will have far more autonomy, the school will likely run in a less rigid way and the experience will be more personalised.

Sustainability is also mentioned a lot on MN but closing schools is rare. One form entry is far from unsustainable and would be an awful lot of children to relocate on other settings. If the school is rural, it might also benefit from scarcity funding. A school with under 10 pupils I'd be worried about, not one with a roll of around 200.

Thank you. I feel we are leaning towards the smaller school for the reasons you say, but I don't want to make a mistake. I see pros and cons for both.

Can you please add any more thoughts on this. I kinda feel I want to be persuaded this way.

The larger school may have economies of scale.

My ds went to a primary with an annual intake of 17, and every year except reception had two groups.

It worked for my ds until yr 4 and then he outgrew it rapidly. It depends on your dcs.

Sorry, 'every class except reception had two year groups.'

Ok, thank you. I definitely don't get the vibe that closing the school is going to happen any time soon. From my research, there are between 22 and 26 kids per year. I feel this might benefit my youngest, in terms of attention from the teacher.
I just don't know about class size and the social aspects - pros and cons.

Larger school, no question for me.

Can you please explain more re his outgrowing it rapidly. What did he outgrow?
And what did you do about it - did he stay til secondary, or did you move him to a bigger primary.

Based on my experience, I'd chose the small school.
DC goes to an undersubscribed CofE village school and he loves it. They have a very personal approach- all the teachers, incl the head teacher, know him and vice versa. Due to the size of the school he also spends a lot of time with older kids and has many significantly older friends, which the school encourages. Also, as he only has 16 children in his class (vs 30 in big schools), he gets much more attention and help.

His older brother went to a big school and while he was expected to get to the same secondary school than most of his friends, he didn't. Which in all honesty wasn't really an issue, as within just a few weeks he had already made many new friends.

Go and see both schools, see how much time and effort the schools puts into showing you around, make sure they have wraparound care (if you need that), etc.

Yes, financially sustainable. More children on roll = more funding. It's a worry that the smaller school is under-subscribed.

Yes, children make new friends in Y7 but in the first few days/weeks it's good to feel you know some people. Especially if you're still relatively new to the area.

Why?

Larger school.

My DD went to a one form entry primary (full, 30 in a class) because it was the local school, and it was fine, but we'd have preferred a bigger school.

As @MintJulia says, there are economies of scale. Much more chance of breakout groups for children of a similar level for certain things, or extra support groups, nurture groups and the like.

A larger school offers a bigger friendship pool, and is a better preparation for secondary.

If you were in infants I'd say the single form entru. But for y4&y6 I'd go for the form. More choice of friends and just to know people to say hi to in secondary. May be able to do more stretching or intervention if needed.

Does the smaller school amalgamate classes in KS2? This would be one of the first signs of underfunding - a school of say 161 (23x7) or so children, rather than 210 (30x7), is going to be at least one teacher short in funding.

So the first step is normally at that point to try amalgamate classes - so run 3 classes over years 3,4,5,6 for example, instead of 4, losing a teacher. Or 2 classes in YR1/2/3 if rolls are declining and that can be done with a max of 30 per teacher.

One form entry isn't tiny imo.

I would pick the bigger school. Kids will often make new friends at secondary but sometimes the odd y6 friendship survives. The year 6 child in particular is going to feel a lot more confident about the transition to secondary as they will know people moving to year 7 with them and if they are in the same form even better. I would imagine that the kids who don't know anyone can be a bit nervous during the summer holidays after year 6 is over.

Thank you. This is all interesting.

We have visited bot schools.

Small school - shown round by a wonderful Head. I liked her a great deal, and she was great with DC.

Bigger school - shown round by admin staff who couldn't be less interested in us if she tried. But I don't want to write off the school based on one admin staff who isn't involved in the day to day teaching of my children, or who may just have been having a bad day.

I'm not really bothered about the secondary school aspect. We are directly opposite the secondary school I want them to go to and I strongly suspect we will be fine, second choice is also near by if not.

Small school - the teachers and staff will get to know your kid
they tend to encourage friendships between classes and year groups
what you may miss on extracurriculars (which you can organise) you win on people really knowing your kid

We chose a smaller (tiny - 140 kids total) village school over a big oversubscribed local school. My kids are happy, there is individualised teaching, breakout groups (eg for maths/English support or extras), plenty of after school clubs and a fantastic community. Plenty of events through the year, sports day, school productions, the works.

The school also feeds into our preferred secondary, whereas the larger school didn’t.

When they enter secondary they will know a few people from school, a few from out of school clubs, and a few in the years above too. They’ll be secure and confident in themselves and their individuality. Couldn’t recommend a smaller and more nurturing environment. But each to their own!

Given the ages of your DC - nearly into secondary school - and not really liking the secondary school associated with the smaller school...............
I would pick the larger primary school.

It will better set them up for secondary school - larger buildings, more facilities, more people etc

My children are at a 1 form entry village school - it has its pros and cons. The school is very friendly and children are well known by all staff - a true community feel. But, they have trouble getting sport teams together and extra curricular isn't brilliant. The school suits my quieter child but more outgoing child feels a bit restricted and will be pleased to get to high school with a bit more buzz