Tiny school Vs larger school

[Stryke]

Hi

We are relocating and I need to look at schools in our new area. I have been advised that there are places in two schools.

The children will be going in to Y4 and Y6.

We have come from a school of two-form years. So 60 kids per year.

School A has one form entry, and is currently extra undersubscribed anyway.
School B has four, with currently only two places in each year we require.

There is no in-between.

They are near enough equal in other aspects. Provision for after school activities looks neat enough equal (larger school has slightly more choice, but I am hearing waiting lists. Both kids keen to do extra curricular dance and/or singing/choir).

Based on year size alone, which would you pick?

If all else was equal I'd choose the larger school. But it sounds like you got a better impression of the smaller scholl, in which case I'd go with that 🙂

Thanks for replies so far. I need to pop out but will be back xx

A very small school has a limited number of teaching resource. Ds is a 'maths head' very good at maths, normal at other subjects. The school wouldn't set work that challenged him because they didn't have time He became bored and fed up. He stayed until the end of year 6 but was relieved to go to a senior school with a large and responsive maths department which would work at his pace.

Also I would consider logistics - is one better to walk to or drive to?

The funding model for schools is the issue. Quite a few schools have in fact closed because of insufficient pupils. This means insufficient funds, as funding for schools is per pupil. A small amount of funding means fewer teacher and few activities.

www.theguardian.com/education/2019/jul/17/number-of-small-schools-in-england-halves-since-1980

I love our small village primary school. It has lots of plus’s but also minus. A larger sch prepares kids more for the large high schools I think. But a village primary is such a warm personal choice for me at such a young age.

Esp given you have ay6 child making a change of schools now, I'd go for the bigger one. If he/she makes friends more, the chances are they'll have friends at secondary.
But more importantly...
I'm a primary school teacher in a one form entry school. I'd love to advocate the same school. But the reality is that we are seriously understaffed and overworked. As there are only 7 teachers, every teacher has at least one subject to lead (most have two) in addition to being responsible for their own class obviously. The senco will have that as an additional role. Plus one of those same teachers are curriculum, assessment and behaviour leads.
Ex colleagues have gone to work in larger schools and and immediately happier. Workload is shared more - eg when planning, one teacher plans maths and the other English. Not every teacher is made to be a lead on a subject. Not every teacher needs to take assemblies in a weekly basis etc etc.
I know this is a generalisation and I'm sorry to paint a negative picture of one form schools, but that's the reality.

Oh and to add, the recent pay offer from the government would have meant that we would have to lose at least one teaching assistant in order to have the funds for the pay rise.

The larger school so your child has a wider choice of friends. With a one form entry if there are any issues with other kids your child won't be able to get away.

If the smaller school is already undersubscribed I wouldn't chose them as funding is based on headcount's.

Sustainability is also mentioned a lot on MN but closing schools is rare

There are big issues with surplus places & schools having a funding crisis.

My kids went to a small school (half the size of the one you describe as "tiny") and I felt it had lots of positives for them:

• they knew everyone and everyone knew them, including all teachers and the head
• there was more of an opportunity for personalised learning - eg. to go up to a higher class for 1 subject or down to a lower one
• a more limited pool of friends taught them that you have to get on with everyone really

Both of them transitioned to a large secondary with no problems. It helped that the small school was our catchment so not a "choice" as such. Of course there were a few disadvantages too in terms of extra curricular offering, and occasionally a year group would get very skewed to either girls or boys.

I do think small is great for younger dc but bigger is better for secondary prep.

I would also have a look at pick ups and drop offs and see if any of the parents feel more like your tribe or not.

When I relocated, we didn't get a choice, DC was allocated the 6th closest school. TBH some of the parents were just awful (most were nice), but they really dragged the school down. At one point a police officer was stationed at the school gate as some parents had started fighting. We were on the waiting list for our 3 closest schools and we got a spot just over a year later (we were about to move DC to private school). I made no real friends here.

Once my DC had moved to a local village school, it enormously benefitted my social circle as well. I have made some really good friends who I treasure.

The best piece of advice I got was from a careers counsellor (had just been made redundant and was part of the leaving package).
I was telling her we were thinking of relocating as being made redundant meant I wasn't locked to this area any more. She asked me how old were my DC, I replied 'primary.'
She said 'Go! Parents make so many friends at primary school, it's harder if they're at secondary school as you aren't around'

I would definitely think about yourself in this equation too, particularly if you don't know many people. I knew no one locally when I moved.

The smaller the better

I’d definitely go for the larger one

friendship pool being so small is not great and facilities etc will be better at larger one

I grew up in a rural area with lots of small schools and went to a small primary (although it was one of the bigger ones) and small secondary. Some local schools had just a handful of pupils and one or two teachers. At primary I didn't ever have a 'best friend' because I didn't fit in (very conservative community and clever girls weren't really approved of). At secondary I had friends but the subjects on offer were limited and there was no streaming and I was unpopular because I was smart. I couldn't 'find my tribe' because there was no-one outside my family who was like me, there was only one other girl in my year who went to University. Those stats would be different now but the fact remains that small schools are socially very limiting, particularly if you are different in some way.

My children go to a three form intake primary then a secondary with 250 in a year. I deliberately chose a large primary for them. They have always had other bright geeky kids to be friends with, both schools have been able to set and stream and stretch them sufficiently. Their school experience is totally different to mine.

My daughter used to go to a large 3 form entry primary school. We relocated and she now goes to a school that I'd estimate is 1.5 form entry with 3 combined classes per "team". So 3 X combined year 1/2 classes etc.

She's absolutely thriving at a way she didn't in the other school.
They're very keen on encouraging outdoor time and encouraging children to pursue their interests. When I've been in for the odd meeting it feels less chaotic than her large primary school was as well.

I don't think smaller schools are as bad as people on here seem to make out.

I think 2 or 3 form is the sweet spot.
So, I'd go on gut feel of the school or logistics.
If it might be needed, do both have any after-school care (ie childcare to allow you to work) rather than clubs and activities?

Why the larger one, unless my kids are shy?

Because there will be more clubs etc to join, a larger peer group and more stuff aimed at their specific ability level whatever that may be. DD went to a 1.5 form entry school (later dropped to just one form in her year) and it was very very good at the start. The benefits of being in a tiny class in Reception were really huge and she was at the time very shy. But like someone else said, she kind of outgrew it as she got older and developed more confidence. By Y3 things were beginning to be tricky. It was very difficult with friendships in particular because there were very limited numbers of children to choose from.

We also had an issue with the lack of an academic peer group - there were very few children working at a similar level and although the school put effort into making sure she had appropriate work it was difficult for them to do so. This is less of an issue if your children sit in the middle somewhere. If either of your children is likely to be top or bottom 5 or 10% I think it's more important to think about this.

Having said all that, it sounds like you got a better vibe from the smaller school and if your gut reaction is telling you that that is where your children would be happier it is worth listening to!

Larger school, if worries me that the other one is undersubscribed, and in smaller schools if there are disruptive children it doesn’t take many in a small class to impact everyone’s learning.

Lots of reasons.

Larger schools have economies of scale, so they tend to have more/better resources overall even if it's the same level of funding per pupil.

Larger schools have more teachers so they bring together a broader range of skills and expertise and can share the load between them more effectively. E.g. year group teachers can share planning instead of doing everything by themselves. Subject leads can have one dedicated area of responsibility rather than having to juggle umpteen different hats because there is nobody else to do it!

Larger schools also tend to offer better opportunities with regard to extracurricular activities etc because there are more teachers to share the load and they will have a range of skills and interests between them. Plus enough pupils to make a range of activities viable.

Larger schools also have more pupils so offer a much wider network of potential friends. You're more likely to find other children who your kids will gel with, and there is scope to switch up classes etc if individual children are clashing etc.

And yes, as a pp said, a larger school is also going to have a more diverse spread across the ability range, so more likely to find other children working at a comparable level.

Not to the best of my knowledge. They seemed to be happily managing classes of around 25 kids.
I don't think the school shutting is an issue, not in the immediate future. If it does, we'll just have to deal with it.