How would you expect the school to handle this?

Rainbowpetal · 2023-02-11T22:28:20+00:00

Child in DC’s class (age 5) has some additional needs that are not yet diagnosed and so there’s no funding in place. This is leading them to hurt other children in the class on a daily basis. This can be anything from hitting, scratching, kicking, hair pulling, throwing toys at them, hitting them with toys. The teacher always speaks to the parents of the children that have been hurt and then the child’s mother who’s done the hurting. I am in no way saying this is the teacher’s fault, I know it is not at all. You can see how stressed she is by it all and trying to support all of the class. My question is, what should the school be doing to safeguard our children? I’ve known children in other schools to have 1:1 support but this child does not. The head has said there is a risk assessment in place (not stopping anyone getting hurt!) and the child is being supported in every way that they can be in the classroom by the teacher and support staff. This clearly isn’t enough for this child but if the head isn’t willing to pay for support, what can be done?

MsMarple · 11/02/2023 22:40

If my child was being hurt on a daily basis then I’d expect the school to update their risk assessment and do what was needed to keep them safe.

WGACA · 11/02/2023 22:47

I would meet with the head and then write to the governors if you are not satisfied with their response. The school has a duty of care to keep your child safe.

MrsHamlet · 11/02/2023 22:49

Isn't willing to pay for support? More like can't afford to.

mumyes · 11/02/2023 22:51

This would not be acceptable to me.

If my child got hurt, I would meet the head & want to know what they planned to do.

PushingAnElephantUpTheStairs · 11/02/2023 22:52

You may find the issue is not that the head is unwilling to pay for support but that the local authority is.

Schools are massively underfunded and the head may not have funds available to use for staff in this instance. Once there is a diagnosis and more paperwork it's a bit easier to get funding but not always.

It's shit. The child in question is being failed as are all the others in the class. The teaching staff will be stressed. They are potentially also being hit, bitten etc and worried/frustrated that they are spending the bulk of their time trying to manage the situation and not actually teach.

The lack of adequate funding in schools is failing everyone in them.

mumyes · 11/02/2023 22:54

I totally agree about lack of funding. Terrible.

But I also think a good head we work something out. Somehow.

I'd hope...

RoseslnTheHospital · 11/02/2023 22:56

Diagnosis isn't necessary and there should be the ability/capability within the school to support this child without needing an EHCP to access funding.

It doesn't sound like the SEN team at the school are putting in place effective strategies to manage the behaviour. It sounds like the classroom environment is overwhelming for the child and they haven't got suitable strategies in place to address that.

The issue for you is that you cannot discuss the other child with the school staff. You can only focus on the impact on your child and how to keep your child safe. That's what I would focus on when speaking to the teacher - what issues your child is having and what needs to be done for her, to keep her safe.

Hercisback · 11/02/2023 22:57

"won't pay for support" more likely they don't have the money to pay.

It's shit for everyone. The teacher, the child, the other children.
The teacher will be trying their best.

PushingAnElephantUpTheStairs · 11/02/2023 22:58

What exactly can they do though? Pull support from another child? Hand out flyers on the street hoping for a magic wand?

Also, support doesn't stop these things instantly. It takes time which is frustrating for all concerned, but you're dealing with people and not robots.

JustKeepBuilding · 11/02/2023 22:58

Support (including funding) in schools is based on needs, not diagnosis. The school should be putting SEN support in place. If they need more funding to do this they should apply for high needs top up funding. They or the parent can also apply for an EHCNA.

Hercisback · 11/02/2023 22:58

What do you expect? Heads can't magic up 1:1 support without funding. There aren't spare people in schools.

WoolyMammoth55 · 11/02/2023 23:01

Hi OP, I'm on the PTA at my kids school so meet the leadership team monthly.

Everything that they do is easiest and smoothest when (a) the parents are coming in in a collaborative frame of mind, not aggressive; and (b) when there's a group or consensus.

If I were you I'd get a cohort of parents together - minimum 3, max 10? - all of whom have kids who have been affected and are keen to go to meetings to explore options for improving the situation (no one too sweary!)

Then email the head teacher and the safeguarding lead/deputy (in our school head teacher is also safeguarding lead but it'd be better to meet more than one staff member, to avoid it feeling too personal). Say that you are a group of parents with concerns, that for the sake of the to-be-diagnosed-SEN-child and for all your children, the situation needs to be addressed.

Ask directly what the barriers are to funding 1-2-1 support; ask if the PTA funds can support it, or pupil premium. Explain that you don't blame the classroom teacher but that everyone is being let down by lack of specialist support.

Ask for there to be a series of meetings, after 2 weeks and 1 month and 2 months, so that the school and parents can be in an active dialogue to monitor the situation and try to find a positive solution.

Also say that your children need to feel safe in school and they don't feel safe; they are being hurt and this needs to end. Every child should feel physically safe in school, and this is the line that needs to be met.

Best of luck.

mumyes · 11/02/2023 23:02

WoolyMammoth55 · 11/02/2023 23:01

Hi OP, I'm on the PTA at my kids school so meet the leadership team monthly.

Everything that they do is easiest and smoothest when (a) the parents are coming in in a collaborative frame of mind, not aggressive; and (b) when there's a group or consensus.

If I were you I'd get a cohort of parents together - minimum 3, max 10? - all of whom have kids who have been affected and are keen to go to meetings to explore options for improving the situation (no one too sweary!)

Then email the head teacher and the safeguarding lead/deputy (in our school head teacher is also safeguarding lead but it'd be better to meet more than one staff member, to avoid it feeling too personal). Say that you are a group of parents with concerns, that for the sake of the to-be-diagnosed-SEN-child and for all your children, the situation needs to be addressed.

Ask directly what the barriers are to funding 1-2-1 support; ask if the PTA funds can support it, or pupil premium. Explain that you don't blame the classroom teacher but that everyone is being let down by lack of specialist support.

Ask for there to be a series of meetings, after 2 weeks and 1 month and 2 months, so that the school and parents can be in an active dialogue to monitor the situation and try to find a positive solution.

Also say that your children need to feel safe in school and they don't feel safe; they are being hurt and this needs to end. Every child should feel physically safe in school, and this is the line that needs to be met.

Best of luck.

Great suggestion 👏

Nix32 · 11/02/2023 23:14

Those of you who are saying apply for emergency funding etc - do you realise how long that takes? Firstly to access the money and then to appoint someone - if anyone actually applies, that is. Sadly, issues like this can't just be solved overnight.

JustKeepBuilding · 11/02/2023 23:16

No-one is saying it is a quick or easy fix, but this situation has clearly been ongoing for some time, so there has been time to apply for funding &/or an EHCNA and there has been time to appoint someone temporary or permanent.

Original poster

Rainbowpetal · 11/02/2023 23:35

All good advice, thank you so much 🥰

OP posts:

Jules912 · 12/02/2023 12:16

The school should be putting in some support ( not necessarily a 1-2-1) but it can take time to work out what that is. My DD actually found having a TA hovering over her more overwhelming so it's not always the right support,
While truely awful at the time, being suspended was actually one of the best things that happened as it flagged her as vulnerable and opened up funding for more support.

LizzieBet14 · 12/02/2023 12:27

WoolyMammoth55 · 11/02/2023 23:01

Hi OP, I'm on the PTA at my kids school so meet the leadership team monthly.

Everything that they do is easiest and smoothest when (a) the parents are coming in in a collaborative frame of mind, not aggressive; and (b) when there's a group or consensus.

If I were you I'd get a cohort of parents together - minimum 3, max 10? - all of whom have kids who have been affected and are keen to go to meetings to explore options for improving the situation (no one too sweary!)

Then email the head teacher and the safeguarding lead/deputy (in our school head teacher is also safeguarding lead but it'd be better to meet more than one staff member, to avoid it feeling too personal). Say that you are a group of parents with concerns, that for the sake of the to-be-diagnosed-SEN-child and for all your children, the situation needs to be addressed.

Ask directly what the barriers are to funding 1-2-1 support; ask if the PTA funds can support it, or pupil premium. Explain that you don't blame the classroom teacher but that everyone is being let down by lack of specialist support.

Ask for there to be a series of meetings, after 2 weeks and 1 month and 2 months, so that the school and parents can be in an active dialogue to monitor the situation and try to find a positive solution.

Also say that your children need to feel safe in school and they don't feel safe; they are being hurt and this needs to end. Every child should feel physically safe in school, and this is the line that needs to be met.

Best of luck.

Pupil premium is not enough to cover a 1:1 support. PTA funds are there to support the whole school not one individual child.

One possible solution would be for the Head to juggle the timetables of existing TA's to free them up to support a child. No easy answers at all - I feel for everyone involved.

PathOfLeastResitance · 12/02/2023 13:10

We have this in my school. We have the funding but can’t find a suitable person to take in the role.

MTIH · 12/02/2023 13:26

Unfortunately, there has been a steep rise in pupils in primary with very high needs. Even specialist support unable to meet the child's needs ( and therefore a huge impact on other pupils and staff).

This is about a broken system. Poor pay for TA’s, lack of adequate school funding, an academy system put in place by the government which means LA’s cannot open new schools ( even special schools) and academy trusts not really up for doing this difficult role. We have such a limited number of locum Educational Psychologists to even help to get the support in place or evidence the need for an EHCP in any legal timeframe ( 20 weeks).

Combine that with much specialist provision being private or through charities and you have the perfect storm, sadly.
Specialist ‘private’ provision can cost LA’s on average £100,000 per child per year ( shareholders need a return!). Catch 22 for LA’s on reduced central government funding, just how many children can they provide specialist support to at such a large figure.

A shattered system. It helps no one especially not the child with needs or their classmates.

wellbehavedwomenseldommakehistory · 12/02/2023 13:32

OP please do not do what the pp suggested and band together with other parents to approach the school about how to deal with the child, even if it's with the best of intentions.

The school cannot and will not discuss the other child, their needs or what they're going to 'do' about them, with any of you.

You need to approach them as a parent on your own, express how (understandably) unhappy you are with the current situation and discuss what they are going to do to keep your child safe in school. That is it. They need to do that. It's not ok for your child to be hurt; they have a duty of care to all children. How they achieve this, in the nicest way, has nothing to do with you.

The system is broken at the moment. The child will be reacting like this because they are overwhelmed and their needs aren't being properly met. It's not their fault. But neither is it your child's and they need to be able to go to school and not be hurt.

Soontobe60 · 12/02/2023 13:36

As you are not the parent of the child you’re talking about, I’d be amazed that you were party to what the school have or have not put into place.
even discussing a risk assessment with anyone other than the child’s parents is a serious breach of both GDPR and safeguarding.

Soontobe60 · 12/02/2023 13:38

WoolyMammoth55 · 11/02/2023 23:01

Hi OP, I'm on the PTA at my kids school so meet the leadership team monthly.

Everything that they do is easiest and smoothest when (a) the parents are coming in in a collaborative frame of mind, not aggressive; and (b) when there's a group or consensus.

If I were you I'd get a cohort of parents together - minimum 3, max 10? - all of whom have kids who have been affected and are keen to go to meetings to explore options for improving the situation (no one too sweary!)

Then email the head teacher and the safeguarding lead/deputy (in our school head teacher is also safeguarding lead but it'd be better to meet more than one staff member, to avoid it feeling too personal). Say that you are a group of parents with concerns, that for the sake of the to-be-diagnosed-SEN-child and for all your children, the situation needs to be addressed.

Ask directly what the barriers are to funding 1-2-1 support; ask if the PTA funds can support it, or pupil premium. Explain that you don't blame the classroom teacher but that everyone is being let down by lack of specialist support.

Ask for there to be a series of meetings, after 2 weeks and 1 month and 2 months, so that the school and parents can be in an active dialogue to monitor the situation and try to find a positive solution.

Also say that your children need to feel safe in school and they don't feel safe; they are being hurt and this needs to end. Every child should feel physically safe in school, and this is the line that needs to be met.

Best of luck.

So in other words, form a posse of vigilantes?
if parents are unhappy that there is a child with SEN in their child’s class, they can always look for another school,

Wagt · 12/02/2023 13:44

If your child is being regularly hurt at school, move schools. This problem isn’t going to get solved quickly.

FusionChefGeoff · 12/02/2023 13:45

WoolyMammoth55 · 11/02/2023 23:01

Hi OP, I'm on the PTA at my kids school so meet the leadership team monthly.

Everything that they do is easiest and smoothest when (a) the parents are coming in in a collaborative frame of mind, not aggressive; and (b) when there's a group or consensus.

If I were you I'd get a cohort of parents together - minimum 3, max 10? - all of whom have kids who have been affected and are keen to go to meetings to explore options for improving the situation (no one too sweary!)

Then email the head teacher and the safeguarding lead/deputy (in our school head teacher is also safeguarding lead but it'd be better to meet more than one staff member, to avoid it feeling too personal). Say that you are a group of parents with concerns, that for the sake of the to-be-diagnosed-SEN-child and for all your children, the situation needs to be addressed.

Ask directly what the barriers are to funding 1-2-1 support; ask if the PTA funds can support it, or pupil premium. Explain that you don't blame the classroom teacher but that everyone is being let down by lack of specialist support.

Ask for there to be a series of meetings, after 2 weeks and 1 month and 2 months, so that the school and parents can be in an active dialogue to monitor the situation and try to find a positive solution.

Also say that your children need to feel safe in school and they don't feel safe; they are being hurt and this needs to end. Every child should feel physically safe in school, and this is the line that needs to be met.

Best of luck.

We've been in a very similar situation and went about it like this but without the group approach. Quite formally and with lots of follow up meetings / emails etc and most importantly VERY much on the school's side.

As in a 'if we write lots of emails about how bad it is will that help you case for funding / action?' so you could try it from that angle. The more 'official fuss' parents can make, the harder it will be for whoever holds the purse strings to ignore.

Focus on your child's safety definitely and mention that the risk assessment is failing as people are still being hurt in foreseeable circumstances