How would you expect the school to handle this?

[Rainbowpetal]

Child in DC’s class (age 5) has some additional needs that are not yet diagnosed and so there’s no funding in place.

This is leading them to hurt other children in the class on a daily basis. This can be anything from hitting, scratching, kicking, hair pulling, throwing toys at them, hitting them with toys. The teacher always speaks to the parents of the children that have been hurt and then the child’s mother who’s done the hurting.

I am in no way saying this is the teacher’s fault, I know it is not at all. You can see how stressed she is by it all and trying to support all of the class.

My question is, what should the school be doing to safeguard our children? I’ve known children in other schools to have 1:1 support but this child does not.

The head has said there is a risk assessment in place (not stopping anyone getting hurt!) and the child is being supported in every way that they can be in the classroom by the teacher and support staff.

This clearly isn’t enough for this child but if the head isn’t willing to pay for support, what can be done?

Please don't form a group. Just don't.

Don’t be so ridiculous and dramatic. A ‘posse of vigilantes’ would be a large group of intimidating and angry dads accosting the violent child and its parents and threatening to beat them up unless they leave the school/village. Not quite what PTA lady is suggesting eh.

If I were you I'd get a cohort of parents together - minimum 3, max 10? - all of whom have kids who have been affected and are keen to go to meetings to explore options for improving the situation (no one too sweary!)

This is a terrible idea. No way is a school going to discuss an individual child with a big group of parents.

It's rubbish for all involved and there is no over-night fix unfortunately. Just because the child is still hitting, doesn't mean that the school hasn't put any support in place.

As a parent the only thing you can really do is, speak to the teacher/head/governors (about the impact it's having on your child) or move your child.

How have we got to the point as a society that it’s being suggested that PTA money funds one to one support. 😢

This sounds like a terrible situation for all involved and I really don’t think there is an easy or quick solution. The pupil with SEN is missing out because his condition isn’t being managed at all (no fault of the teacher) and the other pupils are having their learning massively disrupted every day! This is why teaching assistants need much much better pay (because even if they could find the money, it would be harder to find a person to do the job). There also needs to be many more special needs schools as pupils who ten years ago would have had a high
enough level of need to gain a place,
wouldn’t even be considered now.
Someone suggested sending your child to a different school but who’s to say it would t be worse there - these types of
problems are widespread in the current system.
And, on the face of it it should be as easy as the head being able to reallocate a TA or jiggle their timetables so that help can be provided but in many schools there aren’t even enough TAs to fulfil the hours for pupils with an EHCP and if that gets reduced it can land the school in trouble!

So so sad! I despair of the situation our educations system is in.

Definitely do not do what PTA person said. Terrible advice.

This issue is between you and the school. How would you feel if a meeting was held with 3-10 parents and the school to basically moan about your child's behaviour?

Go and meet with the teacher, then follow the processes the school has in place to take the issue further if you need to.

Gosh - very blurred boundaries in your school! Why, as the PRA chair are you having a monthly meeting with the leadership team? The PTA is a separate entity with two purposes - to raise funds and to help build a community through social events. The PTA is not a vehicle for parents to give their views about the day to day leadership of the school.

As a senior leader I would never meet a group of parents. Schools should only meet one family to hear about any concerns they have about their own child. It would never be appropriate to discuss another child but a good school will acknowledge the concerns a parent has about their child and discuss measures in general terms.

I’m sure the school will be doing everything they can to get a diagnosis and then an EHCP, but these things can take months and months.

And no, PTA money can’t be used to pay for a TA 🙄!

@MrsR87 it is a very sad state of affairs. But talk to any school and more often than not the funds raised by PTA are now covering necessities not extras.

The government has seriously let down our children. Pushing children who need support through mainstream school helps no one. The child can't cope with the school and the school can't cope with the child. Meanwhile the whole class has their education interrupted.

I'm sorry to hear this is happening to your DC.

I'm an EYFS teacher and we have the same issue in our unit. A child with undiagnosed issues is constantly biting, pinching, kicking, trashing the classroom,swearing both the children and staff. It is unbearable.

We have been trying to get support since September. We've had our SendCo in, we have monthly meetings with the child's parents, we have had the behaviour specialists in from another setting. The child has a risk assessment and behaviour plan. We constantly have to radio for backup.

The staff are upset and stressed. The constant paperwork is immense. The child's class teacher is thinking of handing her notice in as we feel like we are failing the other children. We dread everyday as to what 'mood'this child will be in. The child has been excluded but there has been no change.

There is no support and no money. Our school our limiting our paper budget there certainly isn't any more money for TAs or 1 to 1.The childs parents are refusing to pursue to special needs route therefore no ECHP and no funding (which can take months or even years to come through anyway). We have no PTA and even if there was that money has to go to helping the whole school.

It is so awful on many levels and must be happening in many schools across the country.

I'm sorry this is happening to you and your child. I wish there was a magic wand to fix all of this. My sister is also an EYFS teacher and has 2 children like this in her class.

You can understand why teachers are leaving. We are failing at our job and failing the children in our care.

Thank you for typing this reply. It’s what I wanted to respond but couldn’t be bothered to type out. It’s also worrying that it’s been lauded as a great suggestion.

100% this. SEN children being given some risible semblance of an education at the side of a classroom because the government cannot be bothered to fund their special school places.

Please support the teacher strikes and strongly consider how you vote at the next election.

It’s a similar picture in our school 🥰

This is completely inappropriate. The school should point blank refuse to arrange such a meeting.

Pupil premium is tightly ring-fenced and spending must be demonstrated to improve the outcomes for children in the pupil premium group.

PTA funds are highly regulated and must be used to benefit the school as a whole.

The school can apply for High Needs Block funding, but at this stage of the year the funds are probably already exhausted.

That said, they need to be putting the safeguards in place regardless of funding challenges. Very hard when they aren't allowed to carry a deficit budget through, though.

Schools handle such issues differently. Back in the early 90s I held funding for peripatetic SEN teachers, special nurture and behaviour units and temp funding for TAs where we had children such as this arrive without a statement. The 1992 Education Act gave all this funding to schools via the formula funding. Then, guess what, they didn’t want to spend the money on their send children. With the greatest respect, this is not a new problem.

I would suggest the school excludes the child. I would never ever have suggested this as a LA officer but it’s a safety issue. The DC cannot be managed in school until the school works out what is needed. It’s clearly urgent but they need negotiating time. It makes me wonder where this Dc went to nursery. They should have flagged up issues early on and transition to school worked upon. No reason needs cannot have a ECHP before Dc start school.

PTA should never be involved. Some schools run a School Forum where parents can meet the head. All individual parents should contact the head and chair or governors about the safety concerns. Schools do need to juggle staff and budgets to address an emergency. Or they lose staff. It’s obviously not what they want to do but it’s vital there is a cooling off period, a strategy worked on and a ECHP fast tracked.

As a member of school staff can I say please do not do this.

You do not bring a vigilante posse to put forward your concerns and suggestions

What the fuck has PTA got to do with raising concerns about a high needs child? It's not the governing body. Nice to know there's a PTA out there that thinks they are the official force the school has to answer to.

Ugh - a group of parents got together at my son’s school to demand something was done about a particular child. I refused to have anything to do with it.

You can raise concerns about the impact on your child - cc councillors and MP
if you want a wider understanding of the impact of underfunding schools. Locally the special schools are dangerously full which means ever more complex children are having to be managed in mainstream - where there is neither the skill, nor the environment, nor an appropriate curriculum.

When someone suggests that a group of adults join forces against a child is a baaad idea, they’re not being ridiculous.

It’s not aimed at the child though is it? It’s aimed at the SLT. I don’t advocate doing it, but I’ve seen it be successful. A hepatitis child was the concern and we actually got in a specialist doctor to speak to parents. Tiny infant school and it was packed. This school is unable to deal with the consequences of having the child and has been delegated the money for SEN. Obviously not enough but they need to be far more proactive in protecting the other children. Any parent whose young child is in the presence of an uncontrollable child will be concerned . The other children might well be scared. Inactivity is not an option.

"A hepatitis child"?
You make the child sound like a good old fashioned leper.

I’m afraid that’s what the other parents thought. Complete hysteria with threats to the parent (keep your adopted child away from our school) and a really nasty atmosphere. It was in the days of aids and believe me, it was a very difficult situation in a small village school. We spent a fortune on a new medical room.

There is a group on Facebook called Exit The Classroom... Reading some of the comments on here are prime examples of the teaching side of this.

Parents organising a mob, or a PTA group to get it sorted?

That will really really help the teacher and the TA.

Oh and if the school is in a trust then you'll be lucky if they can get money for a stapler let alone 1-1 staff.

You can present your concerns coherently and sensibly in an email so you have a trail that xan be evidenced... You could sendcthis email in addition to a face to face meeting, with emphasis on how school are keeping your child safe, as they won't be able to discuss the other child.

But please don't get a group of parents together over this. I cannot stress what a bad idea tjis is.

And do the posters who suggest this group of parents (containing all the experts one presumes?) pkan to just descend on the school, or are you all planning to have a word with the parent too.

Thank god my children are towards the end of the education system.

For so many reasons I can't go into I cannot expnain how stupid ideas lije this are and how much damage you can do.

Please don’t form a group. How would you feel if you were the parents of the child and had a group of adults who have ganged together against you and your family? The school and family know what’s going on. They are all stressed out, upset, angry, despairing etc themselves. Head teachers also frown on this sort of behaviour and it is more off putting than helpful.

Just concentrate on the impact on YOUR child. Every time they get hurt you put it in writing and ask for a meeting with the school as to how they are going to keep your child safe. If every parent does the same then you are providing the school and SENCO with further evidence that supports any request for additional financial assistance (and get the child the help they evidently need).

@TizerorFizz

"Any parent whose young child is in the presence of an uncontrollable child will be concerned"

Absolutely. I have been that parent, at the same time being the parent of a child with SEND who finds school difficult enough to access even with high levels of support provided by an EHCP. Said child was terrifying half the class, causing classroom evacs and hurting both staff and children on the regular.

I still wouldn't have dreamed of banding together with other parents to approach the school to 'deal with' the child. It's an appalling idea and any decent school (these days, if your example was in the 'days of aids' I imagine you're talking 30+ years ago) would tell said parent group that they cannot discuss any children with then except for their own.

Can you imagine how you'd feel if you were the parent of the child in question?! If a child is behaving like that at school I can't imagine the parents are having it easy at home and believe me they will be well aware of their child's challenges in school. Likely they're already feeling mortified. It is isolating and difficult enough, without parents creating a group about it.

It's a horrible, inappropriate and very mean spirited suggestion.

I'm a SEN TA. I see this scenario every day. Child wreaks havoc, child is whisked away by SLT, given a stern talking to and/or additional interventions put in place, parents are informed, child may have an internal/external exclusion after several incidents, child returns to class, whole cycle starts again.

There is very little a school can do, especially if parents are in denial (and refuse any offers of extra help/support for their child on the basis that there's nothing wrong with them that the school "sorting out discipline" wouldn't solve). Getting funding for a TA is a long process, and one that LEAs will drag out for as long as possible. Excluding a child long-term is also almost impossible to do (especially for SEN children) because all children have a right to an education.

Some of these children are SEN, some have behavioural difficulties stemming from their background (domestic violence, alcoholic parents, etc.), some have mental health issues, some have other medical issues (such as foetal alcohol syndrome) and teaching staff are supposed to untangle all these different issues and needs whilst also giving a class of 30 an education. Add in the general breakdown in behaviour post-Covid and lack of support from parents and you have what is becoming one long daily battle for school staff.

I love my job, I love my 1-to-1, but I am exhausted, physically, mentally and emotionally. I am paid minimum wage to be sworn at, insulted, kicked, have chairs thrown at me, and the endless rudeness and backchat is just wearing me down. No wonder TAs are leaving to work in supermarkets for more pay and an easier life, I'm about done. For the sake of my 1-to-1, I will stay until the end of this academic year but no longer. I'm done.

There was something similar in my DS class and it was so frustrating from all angles.

Parents of SEND child were hugely upset to see their DC struggling so much/hurting others and encouraged all parents of children that had been hit/injured to contact the school separately about the safeguarding of their own child.

Parents of classmates were upset that their child was subject to the real prospect of being injured daily and the inevitable disruption to learning on the full class.

Teachers/teaching staff understandably frustrated at the lack of any immediate option but to keep trying for funding/extra staff.

No one is a winner in a “bad” situation like this, all three “sides” likely want the same outcome.

@wellbehavedwomenseldommakehistory
Have you read my posts?! I was the education officer trying to help the school! I got the hepatitis expert in. The LA paid for the medical room. We were all mortified by the parents at this sweet very middle class tiny infants school! The head wanted to exclude the child after she started and had already prevented her starting school. We insisted the child started as she had been offered a place. Yes. It was 30 years ago but I used this as an illustration as to how parents do gang up and a deal has to be brokered.

However you won’t stop parents talking! They really will be cross about the school not supporting the disruptive child. Most will also be sympathetic but will look after their child’s interests first. Everyone does. Parents do expect their child to be safe. No, the school won’t talk about the child but they do have to address needs. The needs of every child.