How would you expect the school to handle this?

[Rainbowpetal]

Child in DC’s class (age 5) has some additional needs that are not yet diagnosed and so there’s no funding in place.

This is leading them to hurt other children in the class on a daily basis. This can be anything from hitting, scratching, kicking, hair pulling, throwing toys at them, hitting them with toys. The teacher always speaks to the parents of the children that have been hurt and then the child’s mother who’s done the hurting.

I am in no way saying this is the teacher’s fault, I know it is not at all. You can see how stressed she is by it all and trying to support all of the class.

My question is, what should the school be doing to safeguard our children? I’ve known children in other schools to have 1:1 support but this child does not.

The head has said there is a risk assessment in place (not stopping anyone getting hurt!) and the child is being supported in every way that they can be in the classroom by the teacher and support staff.

This clearly isn’t enough for this child but if the head isn’t willing to pay for support, what can be done?

@TizerorFizz i do understand school funding is covers SEN provision up to ehcp. I dont know why you dont believe this funding is adequete and kept up with inflation and the level of demand. Our school paid for all the services you mention just fine 10 years ago and its got harder and harder to do so.

I think you mean inadequate @Spendonsend

I am not saying there’s enough money. There’s never enough. But posters saying that LAs have money for not EHCP children is not correct. It’s all very well posters shouting for money but the government has the purse strings. We have far too many children not ready for school and of course investment is needed in nursery education. My experience was that those who need it most don’t attend. Money needs to be targeted. It hasn’t been in my view.

But posters saying that LAs have money for not EHCP children is not correct.

There is. There is early years inclusion funding and high needs top up funding depending on whether the child is early years or school age. Again, LAs won’t provide it unless forced, but it does exist.

These are good ideas in an ideal world, but not when there’s no spare money. When you say ‘delegated money per child’, I’m not sure if you mean the normal bums on seats money, or SEN funding? If it’s the former, that money will have already been budgeted for, particularly if this is a new child (since the budget was set) or needs that are only now emerging. If you mean SEN funding, there isn’t funding per SEN child. It’s a notional amount, and never enough by any stretch of the imagination. Top-up funding only exists in the form of an EHCP, but there are still some specialist agencies that can be involved at no cost to the school. This is area dependent though. Educational Psychologists have me to be paid for by the school in most cases.

Top-up funding only exists in the form of an EHCP

High needs top up funding is available without an EHCP. LAs won’t provide it unless forced, but it does exist.

Yes, but even EHCP funding isn't adequate!

A funded hour provided by an EHCP doesn't equate to even an hour's minimum wage pay for a TA.

It depends on area, some use bandings and some just do hours but even if a child has 32.5 hours total funding (so 17.5 hours 'top up') via the EHCP you can bet that'll still fall short of what the school spends to meet that child's needs.

Judicial Review has to actually get to court. It's not as simple as 'send a letter and it gets sorted'. Occasionally that might happen because a local authority will fold before it hits court. But as I said earlier there are not enough free support services for all parents to be able to send a pre-action letter and lots can't afford to pay for to sit own solicitor to do so. And that's even assuming that all parents know they can do this. Believe me; they don't!

As for a well worded email to the Director of Children's services?! Ha! Not in my area. They're literally ignored until a pre-action letter is received and even then they're often still ignored and just get a legal team response some time later.

EHCPs should be completed within 20 weeks. That is the law. A huge percentage are not, regardless of what the law says. There a reason 96% of first tier Tribubals are found in favour of the parent currently (nationally!).

The whole system is an utter shit show - for schools, parents and children - and pretending that just sending an official letter can sort it in weeks is misleading. I wish it were so.

Also what @Yellowmellow2 said. Nominal budget is just that, nominal. Schools are expected to fund up to approximately £6k in support for children with SEND before they even apply for (or when they're in the process of applying for) an EHCP.

They don't get given an extra £6k. They have to find it, somehow, out of their already decimated budgets. That's why prior to an EHCP being awarded schools governing bodies are required to use their 'best endeavours' to meet a children need, and provide the provision they require. They just have to do their best with what they have. The best endeavours expectation becomes an absolute legal duty under an EHCP, but even then they don't get a magic pot of money. Per child in mainstream they have the normal bum on seat money that they get for all children, they have to find the 'nominal budget' money from somewhere and they then get an EHCP top up which is far from enough. Particularly if they need specialised/more qualified staff than your standard TA and also external help like from an OT or SALT.

It often isn’t no, but that wasn’t what I was commenting on.

Besides schools are parents can force LAs to fully fund EHCPs regardless of whatever LA you live in. DS3’s EHCP is fully funded (£35k+) and I have helped many others on MN and IRL secure the same.

I didn’t say JR was as simple as 'send a letter and it gets sorted' but it is a relatively quick resolution in comparison to appealing to SENDIST. And often a threat of JR or LBA does work. I have helped many parents across the country where they haven’t actually got as far as proceedings themselves.

Just because LAs often act unlawfully doesn’t mean parents should sit back and accept it they should be supported to challenge LAs and enforce DC’s rights,

There is no lawful requirement for schools to spend £6k prior to applying for an EHCNA. That is a myth and any LA insisting on such is acting unlawfully and can be challenged.

I absolutely agree that parents shouldn't just sit back and accept things being rubbish. Some local authorities are definitely better than others, ours seems particularly poor performing currently.

The sad fact is for lots of children mainstream education just isn't the right environment for the them or anyone else. But you have lots of barriers to placing them in settings that sound work best for them. For some, those settings might not even exist. You may have a child who is academically bright and able, capable of taking 'the usual amount' of GCSEs one day but they cannot function in a mainstream classroom. They're not catered for here at all and would likely not qualify (or fit)in the majority of SEN schools. You also have the fact that there are no spaces in SEN schools even if this isn't the case. I've seen children recently waiting 2y+ in unsuitable mainstream schools for a place to be available.

You then have parental reluctance. For many, accepting that a SEN school would be better for the child is not easy, and takes years. Especially so with primary age children. By secondary the realisation as a result of the challenges and possibly exclusions etc the reality can't be ignored.

No doubt there are some awful schools that don't help the situations (I see those too!). There are those teachers who 'know better' those SENCOs who think there is nothing wrong because a child masks in school but is in extreme distress at home... that's not their problem. But there are also some amazing schools who try so hard, parents too and they come up against brick wall after brick wall.

You can fight. We do fight. I fight and I help parents to as well. But it takes it out of people. Emotionally, financially, on every level really. That's even assuming the parents are 1) bothered and engaged (sounds dreadful but some aren't!) 2) capable of finding and accessing free support or able to pay for independent reports/support services 3) accepting of the fact that they need to try to access help for the child in the first place.

No, they don't need to actually spend £6k before applying, of course they don't (although it's one we hear often).

But they are expected to use their best endeavours to meet need from the moment they acknowledge the child has SEND and in reality - whatever the law says - they need to evidence that they have done so or the EHCNA will come back as declined even on appeal because the local authority will consider that the needs may be met without an EHCP. If they can't evidence they haven't tried, then they can't prove otherwise. They're expected to use (or find!) the nominal budget to do so and that equates to approximately £6k.

So no. No receipt required for £6k to go along with an EHCNA. But the reality, again, is that schools have tried and they have to evidence that. After all, not even nearly all children with SEND have it even need an EHCP. Lots can have their needs met without one.

I have two special needs children. If a child is behaving like this in school it's usually because it's just not the right school for them. No matter how much support is in place. It's likely sensory issues and can't cope in a big class.

I agree, some LAs are worse than others, but all can be challenged.

A lack of suitable placements is a large problem. But it isn’t helped by LAs acting unlawfully by refusing to name a (non-wholly independent) school because it is ‘full’ when the LA cannot prove the high bar for proving the school is so full admitting DC is incompatible. Forcing parents to appeal. Or not appeal because they don’t know they shouldn’t accept the LA saying there’s no places. If there isn’t suitable school there is EOTAS. Again, it’s often a fight, but is possible. For some though MS with the right support can meet their needs.

I’m not saying it is easy but parents should be supported to advocate for their DC because securing support and challenging LAs is possible.

It is possible to secure an EHCNA even when schools could provide more, but won’t. There’s case law to back this up. It really isn’t essential for schools to have spent £6k even if they don’t have to prove it. I’ve helped parents secure EHCPs where the school won’t even acknowledge the child has SEN let alone provide any support. It often takes at least one appeal but parents shouldn’t think it isn’t possible as it is.

We were in same situation, wrote lots of letters to school asking how they were safeguarding our DS, made it very clear we weren’t interested in the ins and outs of the child requiring additional support, only what they were doing to safeguard. It was a battle for months tbh and we ended up going above HT head to local authority and councillor (we’re in Scotland) after incidents kept occurring with DS (one quite serious) and class was getting evacuated routinely while they got violent outbursts under control. It did get sorted to a certain extent in that they specifically kept my DS and the offending child separate and did increase pupil support but tbh it just moved it onto another poor child. It was an ongoing worry throughout primary school tbh but did settle down for DS. The HT avoided me for the rest of the time DS went to that school though so it did create an atmosphere, but I have no regrets I did what I had to do. Parents didn’t seem to want to come together for fear of being seen as intolerant and school actively discouraged this when I’d suggested a group meeting due to fears of being accused or singling out a family so we just dealt with it individually.

I’ve come across heads who will exclude the child though. They know others are in danger. It depends on the head. It also depends on their staff. Some staff will walk. The head has to balance all needs. Not just SEN needs. A child receiving no support isn’t defined as SEN - yet.

Speak to safeguarding lead and safeguarding governor; look up the safeguarding policy.

So have I. I've know of a school that lost two TAs before they did. Lost them because they were so such of going home black and blue.

It is just so so difficult. I'm always on the side of 'meet need' and understanding the child is behaving in that way because they're unable to regulate themselves for a myriad of reasons. Most often unsuitable environment, IMO.

That's when it is SEN, not poor behaviour because as much as I hate to say it there is a smattering of just utterly awful behaviour which is claimed as SEN when it's absolutely not, one child (and their parents!) sticks in my mind in particular. But I also see enough in schools to know that the staff tolerate a huge amount in these scenarios. Everyone should be able to go to work, and not be hurt. It is no surprise staff leave, particularly TAs who should be paid way more than they are (as should teachers, but let's not start that particular debate!).

I can also understand why schools exclude when children too are in the firing line. No one wants their child hurt and it takes up an inordinate amount of time dealing with repeated complaints from numerous individuals about the same person!

Pupils don’t have to already be in receipt of the SEP they require to be classed as having SEN.

I agree with what you say @wellbehavedwomenseldommakehistory
The biggest regret for me is seeing the decent support services we had being eroded. Well gone! We actually had pretty good support before the funding was redistributed. Never enough but professional and needs based.

Schools would be better advised to group together and provide their own nurture unit. We also had outreach from special schools to mentor teachers. This was valuable too. We definitely need a rethink. Mainstream is not suitable for some Dc. Parents are just as upset about the poorly parented child with behaviour issues as the ones with SEN if their child is hurt. Both need help!

Agree with this. PTA ( majority ime ) think they’re a cut above the rest of us. They aren’t and whilst they are a great help to school in many ways the advice you were given here is awful.