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Original poster

School admission appeal advice needed

112 replies

WiseKat · 30/01/2023 16:13

Hi All -

Would appreciate advice about school appeal process .

My daughter (Year 2) has been refused places in all nearby schools in Sale (Greater Manchester) due to oversubscription.
We now have to go to another school more far away in Stretford and there are issues with me getting to work and traffic.

I understand that appealing successfully in year 2 is difficult as there is a legal cap on class size.

So are there more chances of success if I appeal in Year 3 as the same legal cap will not apply as in Year 2? I read that I can appeal only once against each school rejection, so does it make more sense to appeal in Year 3 as opposed to Year 2?

Would also appreciate if someone could share their successfully appeal application stories and what they considered /included in the appeal.

Many thanks in advance ,

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Bramshott · 30/01/2023 16:20

I think you can appeal once per year, so you could appeal in Y2 and then again in Y3. There's nothing to be lost by appealing now, although as you say, it will be easier in Y3 because class sizes can be a bit more flexible.

Make sure you are on the waiting list for any schools you would consider which are better/closer than the one you've been offered.

I'm sure you know this, but appealing is about what the school you're appealing for can offer your DD, and not about the school you've been offered or your travel difficulties. So if they have a robotics club and your DD is very into science, mention that. If they offer violin lessons and your DD has already started learning violin, mention that too.

Is the school you've been offered more than 2 miles away? If so then I think the LA should provide transport? It's more than 3 miles from Y3 upwards.

Original poster
WiseKat · 30/01/2023 16:25

Thank you for the pointers about the appeal process .

The school we are currently attending is 1.3 miles away , but getting to it is so tricky because of always blocked junction leading from Sale onto Stratford. Buses never run on time and are regularly 15 min late. Last week our bus was 30 minutes late. The journey by car is also unpredictable as the traffic can turn the journey of 6 minutes by car into 20 or 25 minutes . At times it is even difficult to decide when to leave for school in the morning as the situation is so fluid . And when it snows or rains it's even worse .

OP posts:
titchy · 30/01/2023 16:29

WiseKat · 30/01/2023 16:25

Thank you for the pointers about the appeal process .

The school we are currently attending is 1.3 miles away , but getting to it is so tricky because of always blocked junction leading from Sale onto Stratford. Buses never run on time and are regularly 15 min late. Last week our bus was 30 minutes late. The journey by car is also unpredictable as the traffic can turn the journey of 6 minutes by car into 20 or 25 minutes . At times it is even difficult to decide when to leave for school in the morning as the situation is so fluid . And when it snows or rains it's even worse .

That's all totally irrelevant. Especially as at 1.3 miles away you could walk/scoot.

Original poster
WiseKat · 30/01/2023 16:33

I don't see how it can be totally irrelevant for a 7 year old child walking on a busy, noisy , uneven road with fumes for 1 hour a day. It takes 25-30 min walk one way, Why should she suffer, especially in Manchester weather ? I don't see anyone else walking on that road .

OP posts:
PastMyBestBeforeDate · 30/01/2023 16:34

Whether they offer robotics or it's tricky when it snows is irrelevant for a Y2 appeal. I wouldn't bother appealing until Y3.

Lougle · 30/01/2023 16:35

Unfortunately, travel arrangements don't give good grounds for appeal. If it's an infant class size prejudice case, then it also doesn't matter how much the school would suit your child.

However, it is worth appealing in year 2 because you can still appeal in year 3, where the limit of 30 children doesn't apply, and prejudice comes into play.

Original poster
WiseKat · 30/01/2023 16:39

So out of interest : what is relevant in a school appeal ? I guess this is what I am trying to get to.

If the child's daily struggle to get to school is totally irrelevant , if what school can offer to her is irrelevant , if her parent's struggle to get to work is totally irrelevant - then what is relevant ...?

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Original poster
WiseKat · 30/01/2023 16:41

Guess it would be good to hear of any appeal success stories and what grounds they appealed , as pretty much every angle appears to be "irrelevant" so far ...

OP posts:
ThingsChristmasJumper · 30/01/2023 16:44

Put her in breakfast club to miss the traffic?

Original poster
WiseKat · 30/01/2023 16:49

In my opinion rather than constantly paying and putting her in a breakfast club everyday, it's better try and place her in a school closer to home and in the heart of the community where we live. This seems a better option for a child and balanced development .

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PastMyBestBeforeDate · 30/01/2023 16:49

At Y2 it comes down to is there a procedural error or is the decision perverse. And that means allocating a school say that has steps to every room for a wheelchair user.
At Y3 transport alone wouldn't be enough but if your dd had chronic asthma and the school had a choir when she's been taking singing lessons for 2 years then it can form part of a prejudice case.

PatriciaHolm · 30/01/2023 16:49

For an Infant Class Size appeal - if there are already 30 in the class in Reception, Y1 or Y2 - then the only grounds on which you can win an appeal are if there was a mistake made that cost you a place, the admissions criteria don't meet the admissions code, or the decision not to admit was so unreasonable a normal person would not make it. This is a very high bar.

You can appeal once per year group per school, unless you have a significant change in circumstances.

For a Yr3+ appeal, then you need to show that the detriment to your child of not attending this school is greater than the detriment to the school of taking another child. Transport issues are unlikely to be taken into account unless the journey is extremely onerous, which yours would not count as as it is well under the maximum mileage. Successful appeals would centre on what the requested school could offer her that is specific to her to benefit her - any specific clubs, languages, etc offered?

Often a primary case is a mix of lots of reasons why a specific school meets her needs. The case would be balanced against the schools' case - if they already have 32-33 per class in small classrooms in an underequipped school, their case is likely to be stronger than a school with 30 in a modern build and a TA in every class, for example.

Original poster
WiseKat · 30/01/2023 16:53

PatriciaHolm · 30/01/2023 16:49

For an Infant Class Size appeal - if there are already 30 in the class in Reception, Y1 or Y2 - then the only grounds on which you can win an appeal are if there was a mistake made that cost you a place, the admissions criteria don't meet the admissions code, or the decision not to admit was so unreasonable a normal person would not make it. This is a very high bar.

You can appeal once per year group per school, unless you have a significant change in circumstances.

For a Yr3+ appeal, then you need to show that the detriment to your child of not attending this school is greater than the detriment to the school of taking another child. Transport issues are unlikely to be taken into account unless the journey is extremely onerous, which yours would not count as as it is well under the maximum mileage. Successful appeals would centre on what the requested school could offer her that is specific to her to benefit her - any specific clubs, languages, etc offered?

Often a primary case is a mix of lots of reasons why a specific school meets her needs. The case would be balanced against the schools' case - if they already have 32-33 per class in small classrooms in an underequipped school, their case is likely to be stronger than a school with 30 in a modern build and a TA in every class, for example.

Okay thank you very much ! I think this clarifies a lot for me and how to go about my case .

OP posts:
Johnnysgirl · 30/01/2023 16:56

WiseKat · 30/01/2023 16:53

Okay thank you very much ! I think this clarifies a lot for me and how to go about my case .

Show quote history

You really don't have a case.

ApathyMartha · 30/01/2023 16:59

It may be just my authority but distance from home to primary school has to be under 2 miles. Yours is under that. And yes I agree it is unreasonable to expect an infant to walk that far but the panel will bear in mind the guidelines about distance.

Original poster
WiseKat · 30/01/2023 17:05

Thanks very much for your answers . I will now proceed with logging my case .

OP posts:
LIZS · 30/01/2023 17:50

WiseKat · 30/01/2023 16:33

I don't see how it can be totally irrelevant for a 7 year old child walking on a busy, noisy , uneven road with fumes for 1 hour a day. It takes 25-30 min walk one way, Why should she suffer, especially in Manchester weather ? I don't see anyone else walking on that road .

Sorry but this argument won't fly whether for year 2 or 3. Children walk in all weathers up and down the country. It sounds as if you could drive but prefer not to. While you wait either for a wl place or appeal is there a before school club you could drop dc at to give you more time to get to work, or use a childminder?

Original poster
WiseKat · 30/01/2023 18:01

Hmmm , yes I can see that most arguments don’t “wash” in an appeal process. Just trying to figure out which ones “wash” hence the question in this group. Actually the issue is not whether only but the nature of the road to the school itself : busy , heavy traffic , huge trucks with deafening noise, splashing us with water, fumes . Not a great start for a 7 year old in any country I would say. Not what I would call a standard “walk to school”.

OP posts:
Fieldfly · 30/01/2023 18:09

Move house?

Hobbitfeet32 · 30/01/2023 18:10

What time do you start work @WiseKat and how far away is it from work/school? Do you have a partner who can help with the drop offs and pick ups?
1.3 miles is really not an unreasonable distance for a 7 yr old to walk (not counting disabilities etc)

Original poster
WiseKat · 30/01/2023 18:11

Fieldfly · 30/01/2023 18:09

Move house?

Ha ha stuck in here for another year at least as paid rent upfront following a relocation as been told this area is great for primary education! Quite ironic in retrospect .

OP posts:
unfortunateevents · 30/01/2023 18:12

WiseKat · 30/01/2023 18:01

Hmmm , yes I can see that most arguments don’t “wash” in an appeal process. Just trying to figure out which ones “wash” hence the question in this group. Actually the issue is not whether only but the nature of the road to the school itself : busy , heavy traffic , huge trucks with deafening noise, splashing us with water, fumes . Not a great start for a 7 year old in any country I would say. Not what I would call a standard “walk to school”.

I'm not sure on what basis you are now going to appeal but the transport angle really isn't going to work. You live in Manchester and your DD will have a walk of 20-25 mins, she is not scaling a mountain or wading through a river to get to school so talk of the rain, the lorries and the puddles are really not going to get you anywhere. If the car journey sometimes takes 6 mins and sometimes 25 then you are expected to allow for the worst case scenario and allow enough time to get to school - just as thousands of other parents have to do every day.

While you may indeed think it would be better for her to be in a school closer to home and not need to be in breakfast club, the reality is that they are full and unless you think that she has incorrectly not been allocated a space in a closer school then you are expected to make this school work.

As a matter of interest, have you moved - is this an in-year transfer?

Original poster
WiseKat · 30/01/2023 18:13

Hobbitfeet32 · 30/01/2023 18:10

What time do you start work @WiseKat and how far away is it from work/school? Do you have a partner who can help with the drop offs and pick ups?
1.3 miles is really not an unreasonable distance for a 7 yr old to walk (not counting disabilities etc)

Actually we can manage even though my husband has to travel for his work . My question was about the appeals process.

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Original poster
WiseKat · 30/01/2023 18:13

In my opinion , surely not everything can be robotically considered in pure mileage terms only , it can’t be a narrow box vision like this. It not only the mileage itself , but what you encounter during that mileage. And the impact it has on the child.

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Hobbitfeet32 · 30/01/2023 18:14

@WiseKat oh right. You said in your OP there are issues with traffic and getting to work?