School admission appeal advice needed

[WiseKat]

Hi All -

Would appreciate advice about school appeal process .

My daughter (Year 2) has been refused places in all nearby schools in Sale (Greater Manchester) due to oversubscription.
We now have to go to another school more far away in Stretford and there are issues with me getting to work and traffic.

I understand that appealing successfully in year 2 is difficult as there is a legal cap on class size.

So are there more chances of success if I appeal in Year 3 as the same legal cap will not apply as in Year 2? I read that I can appeal only once against each school rejection, so does it make more sense to appeal in Year 3 as opposed to Year 2?

Would also appreciate if someone could share their successfully appeal application stories and what they considered /included in the appeal.

Many thanks in advance ,

I would want my child at a local school too; it's easier for friends. Where is he or she on the waiting list of nearby schools?

What I don't think will swing it with any appeals panel is that you have to walk half an hour on a busy road, when a) that busy road has cones all along it since lockdown to give over a full road lane for a virtually unused cycle path that you could very easily cycle on and b) there is a completely traffic free canal towpath also running parallel along the route, again open to cyclists as well as pedestrians.

Your best bet is to ring all the schools you want him or her at periodically to check your waiting list position and confirm you are still interested.

You don't say it, but is there possibly a tiny bit of anxiety about Sale vs Stretford in your post? If so, let that go. Stretford is absolutely fine school wise.

I know that towpath very well. Walk or cycle down that.

is the school St Matts?

Do you know anyone at any of the schools you are in a waiting list for? The infamous school parents what's app groups are the best way to find out about any upcoming places. Waiting lists take time to notify you but if you know of a place then you can contact the school quicker.

I know the route you're talking about OP - it's a busy 3-lane A road and you have to cross the exit slip roads onto/off the motorway. It's not great. I wouldn't fancy the canal walk in the dark either.

But unfortunately that won't help with appeals as so many of the schools are oversubscribed in the area.

My advice would be to find out where you are on the waiting list for your desired schools and hope that a place comes up soon. People do move in and out of the area so hopefully something will happen by year 3.

In my experience there's a surprising amount of movement in primary schools in Trafford. Which Sale schools are you on the waiting list for/ trying to appeal?

When you say you have to cross the slip roads on and off the motorway, do you literally mean you have to wait for a gap in the traffic and run across?

Or is there a crossing?

This is a genuine question, I don't know the area and that sounds fairly grim. We have to make a dash for it across 3 lanes of traffic at a very busy 4 way junction between 2 A-roads and the north circular in London, without a pedestrian crossing. Having to run across traffic leaving or joining a motorway sounds bad if there's no crossing/traffic lights.

You may well find that esp around Sale, Lots of children move to a private school around y4. It's easier than trying to get a private secondary school place.

Sorry, pressed send too quickly. As PPs have said, it'll depend where you are on the waiting list for your chosen schools. I'll not aware of anybody winning a primary school appeal in the area (although that doesn't mean it doesn't happen) but there has been movement every school year.
I've known lots of kids be offered in year places at The Firs in Sale. Are you on the waiting list there?

@BloodAndFire there is a proper crossing, so it's not as bad as it could be, but it's really busy, the cars go at speed and the traffic is often coming from 3 different directions.

It's not a pleasant journey, although I acknowledge that's not grounds for appealing a school place.

Thanks for clarifying. There is one bit we have to cross every day where there is no break in the traffic ever,and you just have to hope for the best. It's pretty scary.

However, if there is an actual crossing then I think it probably comes under the heading of "a not very enjoyable walk" rather than grounds for appeal, as you say.

WiseKat the first thing you need to do is to familiarise yourself with the admissions process. Apologies if you already have done, but with you saying you are new to the area and not a native English speaker I was wondering if you aren't 100% clear on how the process works.
Every school has to publish a list of admissions criteria that is used to decide who gets priority if there are more applications than there are places. (A very common situation at popular schools in some areas unfortunately.) It varies a bit from school to school, but the top priority are usually looked after or previously looked after children, which basically means children who are in foster care, children's homes or have been adopted, or have been in the past. There's also high priority for children with additional needs who have been assessed as particularly needing a certain school and some religious schools give preference to those belonging to that religion. Having a sibling already in the school usually increases the priority and then it comes down to distance. These published criteria have to be followed.
Class* *sizes in the first 3 years of school (Reception, Year 1 and Year 2) are restricted to 30, by law, apart from in very exceptional circumstances so if there are already 30 in the class it is extremely difficult to win an appeal. The only circumstances you will win is if you can prove that there has been an error in applying the admissions rule, and that the error cost you a place. That second part is very important, particularly in your circumstances as the class is presumably already full. So if, for instance, they had made an error in calculating the distance to your home, that would only help if you could also prove that you would have got a place if the calculation had been correct. But in the case of an in year admission, if there isn't a space, there isn't a space, and they can't make a child leave the school to create one even if you bought a house right next door. So that miscalculation would only win an appeal if there had also been other people applying at the same time as you who were awarded the last remaining places, but if the measurements had been done correctly it should have been you. That's really unlikely I'm afraid. It's probably worth double checking it's all been done right as it might affect your place on the waiting list though.
The other reason is if a decision to refuse admission is perverse - so unreasonable that nobody else reasonable would have made it. This means things like, as a PP said, allocating a school with no wheelchair access to a child who can only get about inna wherlchair. Unfortunately whilst it's clear that you find your current journey to school unacceptable - and I can believe it's less than ideal - this kind of journey is very common and it's inconceivable that an admissions panel would consider it meets the threshold to go over the infant class size limit. I understand that your child is your priority and that's understandable, but unfortunately you are one of many in similar situations and there are probably lots of families in your area who have the same kind of problem. If the LEA made an exception for you, they'd have to make it for everyone who felt the same and that just couldn't work. In an ideal world, everyone would be able to send their child wherever they want to, but unfortunately that's just not the case and unless you are willing to pay for private education everyone has to follow the same rules for state education.
I would think that Sale is an area with quite a lot of mobility though so there's a chance that people will move away and create space in your preferred school in due course though, so make sure you stay on the waiting list.
(Sorry, this turned into a bit of an essay - apols if all these points have been made in the time it took me to type!)

I’m familiar with the area too and wouldn’t want to do that walk 2-4 times a day. The traffic is really heavy, often at a standstill and pollution is thick. I would not want my daughter subjected to that at all. I lived in zone 1 London when my kids were early primary and we walked 1.1 miles to school, but even that was more pleasant than OPs route.

not sure if it works with work, but have you looked at schools in the other direction? Like Timperley or Altrincham? The areas are nicer that Stretford and you’d be going against traffic rather than towards Manchester.

The LEA only offers transport if THEY have had to allocate a place further than 2 miles for primary (3 for secondary) due to no places available any closer. If you have appealed for a place for a school further away then you don’t get free transport because you made that choice knowing the distance. Also, transport can be in the form of financial help. Don’t expect a 10 minute taxi when there’s a 45 minute bus journey available that you will have to take them on and return from plus do the same for pick up. Inconvenience isn’t an argument for a school place.

Interesting to see that people are still on this thread even in the morning . Now the conversation further moved onto the irrelevant points like council transport and financial help🙄

@WiseKat The thread has moved on because this is, as you have identified, a 'conversation' and you have posted on a 'discussion forum'. You seem to be surprised that the following morning people are still discussing and having a conversation about your situation. That's what happens. People have also offered incredibly helpful and to the point advice, which you have in the main breezed past. Probably because it has not magically elicited your preferred solution of a primary school place right where you want it to be.

So if this is proving so frustrating, why not a) move house or b) do your own research? But c) definitely stop complaining.

English may not be your native language but you are brilliant at it. I'm sure you can find out everything you need to know yourself.

Actually - yes this is the best advice I got here ! Don't post any questions any more 😆

What a lovely community 😂Have a great day ahead !

It is a lovely community actually. People have gone out of their way to help you, inform you of how the system works and advise you on next steps and other things you could consider. I'm shocked at how rude you're being.

I'm feeling that the OP's name was perhaps not wisely chosen. #PuerileKat.

Okay now, now , ladies ...I did say thank you for your opinions and thoughts several times ))

I have appealed for a school before my DC started in Reception (now Year 4, so this was 2018/pre-covid).

One of the arguments where that the school allocated was too far, it's 1.8 miles as the crow flies but the only way to get there was either drive or bus with a long walk up a hill which DC wouldn't manage due to a medical issue.

We also needed a school with classrooms on the ground floor or with the option of a lift which the allocated had neither of.

The council gave us our 2nd preference school as they argued that it was cheaper and would disadvantage the other pupils less if DC went to that school than making the alterations and causing disruption to the current pupils of the allocated school.

They're probably all doing the far nicer walk along the canal

Okay understand , thank you very much for your explanations and time . Very much appreciated

So good to finally have a relevant answer - thank you ! 😀

That answer is only relevant if your DC also has documented additional needs which mean that walking is limited and a lift must be available (or everything on ground floor)

Is that the case?