Page 2 | School admission appeal advice needed

WiseKat · 2023-01-30T16:13:25+00:00

Hi All - Would appreciate advice about school appeal process . My daughter (Year 2) has been refused places in all nearby schools in Sale (Greater Manchester) due to oversubscription. We now have to go to another school more far away in Stretford and there are issues with me getting to work and traffic. I understand that appealing successfully in year 2 is difficult as there is a legal cap on class size. So are there more chances of success if I appeal in Year 3 as the same legal cap will not apply as in Year 2? I read that I can appeal only once against each school rejection, so does it make more sense to appeal in Year 3 as opposed to Year 2? Would also appreciate if someone could share their successfully appeal application stories and what they considered /included in the appeal. Many thanks in advance ,

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gogohmm · 30/01/2023 18:16

1.3 miles is not grounds for exemption from infant class sizes as it's within the 2 miles it is considered acceptable to walk. Plenty of children walk or cycle that distance. If you would prefer a nearer school all you can do is go on the waiting list

Fieldfly · 30/01/2023 18:16

20 or 25 minutes is not a long drive or a long walk.

Original poster

WiseKat · 30/01/2023 18:17

Hobbitfeet32 · 30/01/2023 18:14

@WiseKat oh right. You said in your OP there are issues with traffic and getting to work?

Yes there are all of those issues due to local infrastructure. But I am looking for a more long term solution , not quick fixes .

OP posts:

unfortunateevents · 30/01/2023 18:17

WiseKat · 30/01/2023 18:13

In my opinion , surely not everything can be robotically considered in pure mileage terms only , it can’t be a narrow box vision like this. It not only the mileage itself , but what you encounter during that mileage. And the impact it has on the child.

It's not being considered in pure mileage terms, the schools closer are full! Do you think they should automatically have admitted your child regardless? When did you move, did you check if any of the schools had space available beforehand? If an area has excellent schools, other families will want to live there too!

Undertheoldlindentree · 30/01/2023 18:18

You could try ringing the LA and asking to check the journey with someone in the school transport team. Some very busy roads (e.g busy ring roads or flyovers, inadequate lighting or pavements) are exempt from a 'reasonable journey' and school transport may be awarded well below 3 miles.

titchy · 30/01/2023 18:18

WiseKat · 30/01/2023 18:13

In my opinion , surely not everything can be robotically considered in pure mileage terms only , it can’t be a narrow box vision like this. It not only the mileage itself , but what you encounter during that mileage. And the impact it has on the child.

Not in appeals no. As people have repeatedly said, her current journey to school is not one that any panel would find to be so unreasonable as to be justify awarding a place at your chosen school.

BloodAndFire · 30/01/2023 18:18

1.3 miles? Are you joking?

My kids walked 1.8 miles each way to primary school and back. In London, mostly along main roads.

Get an umbrella if it's raining.

PatriciaHolm · 30/01/2023 18:18

WiseKat · 30/01/2023 18:13

In my opinion , surely not everything can be robotically considered in pure mileage terms only , it can’t be a narrow box vision like this. It not only the mileage itself , but what you encounter during that mileage. And the impact it has on the child.

Unless you are having to walk on a country road with no paths and 60mph traffic, it's not really taken into account.

Realistically plenty of UK school children walk/scoot/cycle to school alongside busy roads. It may not have been the way it was where she started school - I know you have moved here - but it's the way it is here. Arguing that walking alongside a busy road in the rain isn't reasonable won't get you anywhere I'm afraid as it's something thousands of other children have to do every day. You do at least have the option of the bus, even if it does take a varying amount of time.

prh47bridge · 30/01/2023 18:18

ApathyMartha · 30/01/2023 16:59

It may be just my authority but distance from home to primary school has to be under 2 miles. Yours is under that. And yes I agree it is unreasonable to expect an infant to walk that far but the panel will bear in mind the guidelines about distance.

No, it doesn't. If it is more than 2 miles the LA must offer free transport. But anything up to 45 minutes each way is regarded as reasonable at this age.

Original poster

WiseKat · 30/01/2023 18:27

Anyway , thanks everyone for your valuable opinions.

I feel it’s getting unnecessarily judgemental here (which is always easily done anonymously). I asked for advice on school appeals , not judgement for me as we have difficulties . I don’t expect anyone here to understand actually …

Plus we are starting to go round in circles now about what is reasonable and what is not which is completely pointless anyway …

All - have a beautiful evening ! And thanks all for being so extremely helpful 😆

OP posts:

LIZS · 30/01/2023 18:28

If your dd had a health issue which could be exacerbated by spending 30 minutes exposed to high levels of pollution (there was a case of a girl in South London who died of asthma and who walked near the South circular to school) , and there is no alternative walking route and the appeal school route was less polluted it might be worth a mention. However the same could apply to any child walking there. Does the council monitor traffic and air quality there if so there will be an annual report online showing comparison to Statutory limits, for example.

Starcircle · 30/01/2023 18:29

Do you know where you are on the waiting list? It’s possible a couple of children will leave at some point so then you can move your child. I just appealed for my year 3 son to go to the same school as his brother who just started reception (we moved house) and was declined despite both year 3 classes being 60. Said it would be too detrimental for current students. My argument was that I couldn’t be in two places at once for both pick up and drop off but that was not deemed a good enough reason so my mum has to help me every single day doing drop offs and pick ups. It’s definitely worth appealing as you never know the outcome, I might just have been unlucky! We are on the waiting list so he can move when someone else moves but sadly stuck until then. My poor mother 😬

prh47bridge · 30/01/2023 18:30

@WiseKat An appeal for Y2 would be an infant class size case. One of the grounds on which you can win such an appeal is that you have moved into the area and there are no schools with places available within a reasonable distance from home. However, statutory guidance is that a journey of up to 45 minutes each way is considered reasonable at this age. Unless your daughter has a disability and you can produce supporting evidence, there is no way you will convince an appeal panel that a journey of 1.3 miles is unreasonable.

You can appeal for Y2 and then appeal again for Y3 but, on the information you have posted, I would expect an appeal for Y2 to fail.

You have a better chance of success with an appeal for Y3, but you still won't win if your argument concentrates on distance. However, for Y3 the appeal panel can consider the disadvantage to your child through not attending - not the disadvantage from having to travel further, but the disadvantage from missing out on things the appeal school offers that are missing from the allocated school.

Youcancallmeirrelevant · 30/01/2023 18:33

WiseKat · 30/01/2023 16:33

I don't see how it can be totally irrelevant for a 7 year old child walking on a busy, noisy , uneven road with fumes for 1 hour a day. It takes 25-30 min walk one way, Why should she suffer, especially in Manchester weather ? I don't see anyone else walking on that road .

My 4 year old waks 1.2 miles each way to school 🤷🏼‍♀️

prh47bridge · 30/01/2023 18:34

WiseKat · 30/01/2023 18:27

Anyway , thanks everyone for your valuable opinions.

I feel it’s getting unnecessarily judgemental here (which is always easily done anonymously). I asked for advice on school appeals , not judgement for me as we have difficulties . I don’t expect anyone here to understand actually …

Plus we are starting to go round in circles now about what is reasonable and what is not which is completely pointless anyway …

All - have a beautiful evening ! And thanks all for being so extremely helpful 😆

I understand you have your own view as to what constitutes a reasonable distance. The problem you face is that the current statutory guidance is that a journey of up to 45 minutes each way is considered reasonable for a primary school child. You may disagree, but appeal panels and local authorities must follow statutory guidance unless there are very good reasons to depart from it in a particular case.

Willynuts · 30/01/2023 18:35

Not a chance of successfully appealing with these reasons.

MrsPutnamNaomiDarling · 30/01/2023 18:40

WiseKat · 30/01/2023 18:13

In my opinion , surely not everything can be robotically considered in pure mileage terms only , it can’t be a narrow box vision like this. It not only the mileage itself , but what you encounter during that mileage. And the impact it has on the child.

It IS a 'narrow box', exactly like this.

BloodAndFire · 30/01/2023 19:05

WiseKat · 30/01/2023 18:13

In my opinion , surely not everything can be robotically considered in pure mileage terms only , it can’t be a narrow box vision like this. It not only the mileage itself , but what you encounter during that mileage. And the impact it has on the child.

Unless you're walking your child through a red-light district which is really active at 8.20am I don't think they are going to be scarred by a 25-minute walk twice a day.

Bonus, none of this "we don't even know what time to leave in the morning!" Good news is that if you walk, it always takes exactly the same time. And your child might grow up with a reasonable attitude to walking what is really not in any sense a long way.

Roserunner · 30/01/2023 19:08

We appealed in yr 5 and was surprised they measured the distance from school 'as the crow flies' rather than by the roads you have to take so you may find they'll say you're closer to the school than you think!

Our grounds for appeal was the school was too far away, so too long to get to, and couldn't walk. DC would also not go to the same secondary school so would have to make friends all over again.

Good luck with your appeal!

Original poster

WiseKat · 30/01/2023 19:11

Ha ha , now the unsolicited advice on child rearing and parenting comes . Whatever will come next in this simple thread )) Can’t wait !!

OP posts:

Original poster

WiseKat · 30/01/2023 19:13

Roserunner · 30/01/2023 19:08

We appealed in yr 5 and was surprised they measured the distance from school 'as the crow flies' rather than by the roads you have to take so you may find they'll say you're closer to the school than you think!

Our grounds for appeal was the school was too far away, so too long to get to, and couldn't walk. DC would also not go to the same secondary school so would have to make friends all over again.

Good luck with your appeal!

Thank you for your wishes .

"As the crow flies ", ha ha - you made my evening !

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walkinthewoodstoday · 30/01/2023 19:17

Is that 1.3 miles as the crow flies or the actual route?

Outtasteamandluck · 30/01/2023 19:18

Appeals here.

I've known 1 appeal for our LA that has been successful in the last year. Out of hundreds.

As PP have said you won't win an ICS appeal. Best off waiting till on the approach to Y3.

Outtasteamandluck · 30/01/2023 19:19

*ICS appeal that is

titchy · 30/01/2023 19:34

"As the crow flies ", ha ha - you made my evening !

Not sure why that's made your evening - the majority of home school distances use crow flies distance.