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Original poster

School admission appeal advice needed

112 replies

WiseKat · 30/01/2023 16:13

Hi All -

Would appreciate advice about school appeal process .

My daughter (Year 2) has been refused places in all nearby schools in Sale (Greater Manchester) due to oversubscription.
We now have to go to another school more far away in Stretford and there are issues with me getting to work and traffic.

I understand that appealing successfully in year 2 is difficult as there is a legal cap on class size.

So are there more chances of success if I appeal in Year 3 as the same legal cap will not apply as in Year 2? I read that I can appeal only once against each school rejection, so does it make more sense to appeal in Year 3 as opposed to Year 2?

Would also appreciate if someone could share their successfully appeal application stories and what they considered /included in the appeal.

Many thanks in advance ,

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Original poster
WiseKat · 30/01/2023 19:38

titchy · 30/01/2023 19:34

"As the crow flies ", ha ha - you made my evening !

Confused Not sure why that's made your evening - the majority of home school distances use crow flies distance.

It made my evening as it sounds completely absurd . Forgive me !

OP posts:
titchy · 30/01/2023 19:41

An ok! I assume you're not a native speaker then? (Couldn't tell!) But it's a fairly common English colloquialism.

Original poster
WiseKat · 30/01/2023 19:47

titchy · 30/01/2023 19:41

An ok! I assume you're not a native speaker then? (Couldn't tell!) But it's a fairly common English colloquialism.

No, I am not a native speaker .
Didn't see relevance of crows flying to child walking to her school.
Anyway, have a good evening .

OP posts:
Soontobe60 · 30/01/2023 19:49

WiseKat · 30/01/2023 16:49

In my opinion rather than constantly paying and putting her in a breakfast club everyday, it's better try and place her in a school closer to home and in the heart of the community where we live. This seems a better option for a child and balanced development .

1.3 miles IS within the community. I could understand it if the school was 5 miles away, but its not.

Original poster
WiseKat · 30/01/2023 19:52

We live in Sale . The area we are made to walk to along the busy motorway is Stretford . Maybe real walking distance (not the crow flying one) is longer .

OP posts:
rattlinbog · 30/01/2023 19:54

I just had a quick look on the map and is there not a towpath between Stretford and Sale which you could cycle along?

LunaAndHerMoonDragons · 30/01/2023 19:55

As the crow flies just means in a straight line which is how distance between two points are usually measured. I don't know all the names on this board but prh47bridge is very experienced in this area, what you're being told is good advice. Maybe take a look at the different schools and see what you could base an appeal on for year 3. None of it's about the way you think things should be or your difficulties as a parent, focus on what the panel will consider a good argument.

rattlinbog · 30/01/2023 20:00

This is the one I mean

School admission appeal advice needed
Original poster
WiseKat · 30/01/2023 20:00

rattlinbog · 30/01/2023 19:54

I just had a quick look on the map and is there not a towpath between Stretford and Sale which you could cycle along?

Yes I bought a bicycle yesterday to have another back-up and tried the route today myself . Told that it is not advisable to ride with a child at the back , etc , etc . But will have a go in the meantime anyway ...

OP posts:
Jules912 · 30/01/2023 20:00

If it's literally along a motorway that shouldn't be considered as it's illegal to walk on motorways. If however you mean a duel carriageway then that's unlikely to be considered unsafe unless there's no footpath.
You can ask them to consider the actual walking route ( not including a motorway!) rather than as the crow flies but if that takes it above 2 miles then it's more likely they'd provide transport than magic up a space in a closer school. You may have more luck in year 3, a lot of schools go to classes of 32 then. Also the transport may well be a pass for the bus you've already mentioned.

Soontobe60 · 30/01/2023 20:01

WiseKat · 30/01/2023 19:52

We live in Sale . The area we are made to walk to along the busy motorway is Stretford . Maybe real walking distance (not the crow flying one) is longer .

It’s illegal to walk along a motorway.

rattlinbog · 30/01/2023 20:01

Yes or just walk it as it's pretty much the same length as the busy road. Hope you get the school you want though 🤞

Original poster
WiseKat · 30/01/2023 20:06

I have researched all the routes available to us: walking on the busy road with trucks (25 minutes), walking along the canal (35 minutes+) , going by bus (when and if it comes) , going by taxi (no taxis in rain or snow usually) , going by car and being stuck at the junction , so now cycling with my daughter at the back . So thank you for all your suggestions ! I was just interested in the appeal process and now will re-adjust my approach .

OP posts:
ProbablyRomanticised · 30/01/2023 20:13

WiseKat · 30/01/2023 19:52

We live in Sale . The area we are made to walk to along the busy motorway is Stretford . Maybe real walking distance (not the crow flying one) is longer .

Walk along the canal instead of up Chester Road. It's gorgeous and no traffic.

BloodAndFire · 30/01/2023 20:19

'As the crow flies' is a completely normal, standard idiom to mean 'in a straight line'.

I don't think you are walking along a motorway, are you? They don't have pavements and it is illegal for pedestrians to walk along motorways. I think you mean an A-road, which is perfectly normal. We walk along an A-road for most of our walk to school.

Your child isn't going to suffer from walking a few minutes alongside a busy A road. Thousands of children do it every day.

Original poster
WiseKat · 30/01/2023 20:22

BloodAndFire · 30/01/2023 20:19

'As the crow flies' is a completely normal, standard idiom to mean 'in a straight line'.

I don't think you are walking along a motorway, are you? They don't have pavements and it is illegal for pedestrians to walk along motorways. I think you mean an A-road, which is perfectly normal. We walk along an A-road for most of our walk to school.

Your child isn't going to suffer from walking a few minutes alongside a busy A road. Thousands of children do it every day.

Okay thank you so much for your insights .

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Johnnysgirl · 30/01/2023 20:40

WiseKat · 30/01/2023 18:13

In my opinion , surely not everything can be robotically considered in pure mileage terms only , it can’t be a narrow box vision like this. It not only the mileage itself , but what you encounter during that mileage. And the impact it has on the child.

You make it sound like you're hacking your way through an Amazonian jungle. What is your child seeing on the way to school that's having such an adverse effect on them?
If it really is like the inner circle of Hell, all the other children forced to brave it will have an equal case.

Original poster
WiseKat · 30/01/2023 20:46

Yeah actually it's a pretty long , horrible , noisy and polluted route , especially when made in adverse weather conditions or in the dark. Not too fussed about how other children around the country are taking it or would take it . Sorry !

OP posts:
Johnnysgirl · 30/01/2023 20:49

WiseKat · 30/01/2023 20:46

Yeah actually it's a pretty long , horrible , noisy and polluted route , especially when made in adverse weather conditions or in the dark. Not too fussed about how other children around the country are taking it or would take it . Sorry !

I was actually referring to all the other children at the school, not all over the country Confused
Your posts are very peculiar.

LIZS · 30/01/2023 20:49

It is daylight between 7:30 and 5:00pm already so not sure why your walk is in the dark. If the towpath is below the road level it probably is less polluted than you think.

Original poster
WiseKat · 30/01/2023 20:51

I think mostly other children at that school live near it and don't come on this route . At least I don't see anyone on that route walking with us. Does this conversation have anything to do with the original question of the appeals process ?

OP posts:
Original poster
WiseKat · 30/01/2023 20:52

LIZS · 30/01/2023 20:49

It is daylight between 7:30 and 5:00pm already so not sure why your walk is in the dark. If the towpath is below the road level it probably is less polluted than you think.

It's usually dark by the time we get home.

OP posts:
Anothernameanother · 30/01/2023 20:54

WiseKat · 30/01/2023 20:46

Yeah actually it's a pretty long , horrible , noisy and polluted route , especially when made in adverse weather conditions or in the dark. Not too fussed about how other children around the country are taking it or would take it . Sorry !

I'm sure it's rubbish. I have a similar walk daily, but don't have any option to avoid it (except for cycling, and I like being alive). I'm sure it's unpleasant and noisy. The pollution isn't good, but research shows that being in a car in the same traffic would actually be worse.

So I think you're extremely lucky (given the bad luck of being allocated this school) that you've got the canal option and it's only a little longer to walk, or cycling. I'm definitely jealous.

Good luck with the appeal. Also, if you're on waiting lists, you may well get lucky that way some time soon.

PeekAtYou · 30/01/2023 20:59

Have you considered a school that is further away on paper but easier to get to because it doesn't have the complications that make the current journey difficult ? For example a school 3 miles away might be on a bus route that has a more frequent service.

Unexpecteddrivinginstructor · 30/01/2023 20:59

WiseKat · 30/01/2023 20:51

I think mostly other children at that school live near it and don't come on this route . At least I don't see anyone on that route walking with us. Does this conversation have anything to do with the original question of the appeals process ?

I think what people are trying to say is that legally this journey is probably not considered unreasonable in England, so to base an appeal on this would not help your case. Although this might be the main reason you have for wanting her to move schools, you need to find other things which, in year 3 might be considered reasons why the nearer school would better suit your child. Do listen to the advice from @prh47bridge , he is a solicitor and an expert in this area and I believe @PatriciaHolm sits on similar appeal panels. It is really hard to win an appeal for a year 2 place because class sizes can only have 30 in them unless there was an error.