Do teachers still write the 'naughty' children's names on the board?

[Reastie]

I remember this happening when I was at school. there would be a list on the board with the names of children when they were disruptive like a 'naughty list'. I thought this had finished years ago. I'm looking at potential primary schools for DS and one of the schools I had thought otherwise looked good use this as a first defence sanction. They don't call it a naughty list, it's called something like 'name on the mountain' where I presume there's some kind of mountain on the wall where they add children's names as they might disrupt the class.

I'm sure I remember in my teacher training that this had been got rid of as the children with their names on there could be doing it for attention and would like the attention of having their name on the wall, even if it was for something negative they have done. I've never seen it done myself my any colleagues. Is this a red flag or am I overthinking?

Absolutely agree with this. If the pupils never see the consequences of poor choices/behaviour then they actually think that 'Sarah' has got away with punching someone and that's unfair.

All children have a right to feel safe at school and to be able to learn in a calm environment.

Often no TA.

Having a poor home life means that as Wells safeguarding actions the child needs structure and firm boundaries. Not giving a child a clear message that they are breaking the rules won't help fix the damage. If a child has a neurological disability there may well be changes to the system. Teachers are very skilled at knowing the individuals and tweaking the system. However it is also important for children to know the boundaries regardless. They may need more leeway and they may need an adaptation but they still need the boundaries. The sanctions may also be different of course. A child who has adhd might be sent to do a job or given a chance to walk around regularly to keep them focused.

In schools were a virtual system is used through out the school it will have a SLT member in charge of collating information and investigating the children.

Unfortunately some of the systems in place are not whole school and it is why children fall through the gaps.

But does the behaviour chart need to be public knowledge though? Even if you tell the child publicly during a lesson. 4-5 year olds probably aren't going to remember the position of each child on the chart, even after you've said it out loud.

I would always try for positivity - name on the sunshine at the start of every day, rainbow for something noteworthy (not necessarily academic, could be kindness, effort, being helpful etc). There was ALWAYS a warning before sliding down to the white cloud and going down further to the grey cloud was very rare. Even a child who made it to the white cloud, it was my goal to move them back up at the first opportunity. I only used this in Rec - y2 and it did help manage 30 pupils. They all want to please you, after all. Every day was a fresh start and if kids needed a bit more leeway, I made sure they had it (I was also the SENCo most of the time!)

I was reading this thinking exactly that. What do posters think should be done instead? There are rules and sanctions in life, surely you’re failing children massively by not introducing rules and consequences for poor behaviour from a young age? 🤔

Teachers are very skilled at knowing the individuals and tweaking the system

This is true - they calibrate according to the individual child's abilities, and whether they are making a reasonable effort.

Perhaps I'd prefer it more if it was just a private list the teacher had, so they could check were each child was and just tell the child privately they've moved onto the cloud. Does it need to be viewed by all the class where everyone is?

🤦‍♀️

I appreciate the need for clear systems and warnings. But humiliation has been shown to be one of the least effective and most damaging forms of punishment. Putting a child's name up on a bad list - be it 'stormy', 'naughty' 'red light' is a way of warming them but also of shaming them. Outdated and unhelpful in my view.

@Chocoholic900

I'm not sure what you mean.
Do you mean keep the chart private? How do the children know when they've moved up or down?

That's why I don't like it, because the other children can clearly see where there are in relation to each other. Then poor Sarah is getting called naughty by her peers, and even if they didn't witness the hitting or weren't involved because they were playing elsewhere, they ALL know Sarah did something 'naughty' that day because it's clear to see.

The children don’t need to see it in a board, they definitely figure it out for themselves. They’re not being called naughty by their peers because of a board, it would be happening anyway.

Now that is my idea of torture! 😂😂

@Lily7050 I have taught in several independent prep schools and they’ve all used a variation on this method in the Pre-Prep/ Early Years. It’s defiantly not a state school thing.

I don't use the rainbow, sun and cloud system and don't like it, and would never had some form of visual 'negative' system used daily.

However, we have a class who is notoriously chatty. Normal sanctions don't generally help with it - they aren't 'naughty' but they do talk, a lot! Numerous teachers have said the same throughout their time at primary school.

So with that class I do warn them and if they continue I do write their names down on a price of paper on my desk. They know about this and I will tell the child if I need to add their name. Each time they need to be reminded thereafter they lose a minute off their playtime. So it's a name written down, but less obvious than on the board.

@missbunnyrabbit Read the policies of other schools. You can write names on your private list. It doesn’t have to be a public list.

Have you read all of your school behaviour policy? They are usually several pages long. Writing a list isn’t just what a teacher/school does! There must be an up and down system as others describe. Send must be taken into account. The teachers must know when to involve the deputy head and head. Teachers must have training on implementing the policy.

Do you have Golden Rules? Are these covered in phse? Do Dc understand what is required? Most will. Parents too if they are involved with launching snd supporting a behaviour policy. It’s important everyone respects, snd tries to uphold, the rules of the school so parents must have knowledge of behaviour policies too. They are frequently left out.

I can see how it works.

A child does something they shouldn't, because they're a kid. The teacher saying 'when we're in school, we must always do x because we're caring and....'. Kid zones out at the wall of words because at the same time, they can hear two kids whispering on the table to the left, there's a large lorry going past the window, Mr Smith can be heard telling his class that it's time to...., the class above are on the move (or about to come in through the ceiling, going by the racket of chairs), there's a pair of Magpies chattering in the tree, the really bright display is drawing the child's attention to that and there's a pile of things on the windowsill next to the display. At home, they'd know they'd done something wrong because they'd get a slap round the head, not entirely certain what, but it certainly kept their attention on the parent. Child then goes on to do something else because it hasn't really registered with them or spends the entire day thinking they're in trouble and the teacher doesn't like them, they're a bad child, even though they've actually done really well for the rest of the day.

Or, child kind of zones out, but see their name being moved underneath the raincloud. They don't like it, but it means they can see it and they want to move to the rainbow or maybe even the sunshine. So they try hard and the teacher moves their name to under the rainbow in response to answering a question 'Well done!'. Child feels happy and sees their name under the rainbow through the day, so continues that behaviour and gets moved under the sunshine at the end, coming out of school happy - or is reminded that they did well under the rainbow and tomorrow is another chance to get to underneath the sunshine.

Or child doesn't understand a great deal of English. But can recognise their name under a cloud, under a rainbow and under sunshine.

It's a far simpler, visual and physical message than a stream of words that could be misunderstood, misheard and promptly forgotten. It shows there's always an opportunity to make improvements, of redemption if you will, rather than permanently feeling condemned or battered by words as well as sound, sight, textures, smells and everything else in a school. It shows a child who doesn't have a huge working vocabulary in English what behaviour is discouraged and what is desirable.

There are worse ways to achieve this outcome - keeping a secret list means they get surprised by it at the end of the day when they could have forgotten what it was that they did/didn't do, for example.

The visual guide and prompt is the effective and less harmful way of achieving the end of a child able to learn and form friendships/relationships with others.

I know I'd have benefitted from it because I never really learned anything from being talked at, I had to see and do things for them to sink in.

Quote-posting this one for the "anyone opposed to names on the wall is obviously not a teacher" brigade.

Also not clear to me why so many posters assume that dislike of these wall charts must also mean there are no rules or consequences for problem behaviour.

My children's school only does this in reception (I'd prefer not at all), their old school did it all the way through. Behaviour is infinitely better in the new school. I think this is not simplistically about wall charts, but is about high expectations of behaviour (calibrated to children's individual needs), a happy and warm environment, and managing behaviour in the moment (old school had various sanctions tied up with traffic lights - complicated minutes lost off playtime that day or golden time that friday). The children mostly want to behave well, and they actually understand the behaviour policy much better because it's less complicated!

The question is how do you use systems like this when poor behaviour' could be symptomatic of a underlying neurological problem or borne out of a complex homelife? Are we in danger of shaming children for behaviour which is the result of external circumstance or disability

So what would you suggest? Ignore bad behaviour and put up with rioting children? Or do you mean another cosy little chat with the child to try and unravel the reasons why they are hitting other children or even the teacher? Do have a little common sense.

Or you could go one step further than a cosy little chat, and take little Archie and Benji (not real names) out of the class for hot chocolate, with the ta, and promise them if they didn’t throw sand in the eyes of little little lottie again (for the third time that day, then they would get extra dojo’s from the class teacher.

Thus is what my relative experienced first hand in. A School she was doing work experience in.

Utter utter madness, and this insanity is being normalised every day by hapless teachers who don’t believe in any kind of discipline!

@TizerorFizz
Have I read the full behaviour policy?! How patronising. I'm a mere teacher in a school, I do what the behaviour policy says, whether that's names on board or a different method.
Shock horror, my school does names on the board.

@missbunnyrabbit
You said your behaviour policy named one strategy. I would bet £100 it doesn’t if you are in the uk. So it’s not patronising to say that as a professional teacher, you should know there’s more to a behaviour policy than writing names on the board. If you took any interest at all in behaviour management you would have talked about an overall strategy, how you manage children, the up and down mechanisms of policies, and when deputy heads and parents are involved. You implied you worked in a vacuum snd were bereft of knowledge about making behaviour policies work or even knowing what a full strategy looked like.

And this is the problem with teaching today that so many parents are finding excuses for why their child shouldn’t be expected to behave. In last few weeks I’ve had
‘Hes only little (so it’s ok to smack a child in the face?!😮), ‘they don’t understand’ (funny how they stop once they realise they’re losing out on treats) and the best one 😡’I don’t want my child hearing negative language’ (when the other children’s parents are coming to me because he has hurt someone again).

If you are that parent reading this then stop! You are doing your child no favours! If you think your child has additional needs then badger school to listen to you to get support but it’s still not acceptable. It’s always the quiet, well behaved children who are expected to get on and put up with it.

Ive got two friends who both tell me about every teacher their children have ever had has ‘got it in for them’ not putting the pieces together that their child’s behaviour is causing it!

Ah yes - those parents! Like the ones who, when I remonstrated with their 7 year old for deliberately smashing his fist into another child's nose, complained to the head that I 'hadn't gone down to his level which frightened him'.

I love the warped idea that the other kids don't know who is naughty without a chart!!

They know who has been told off for strangling another kid today, or who got into trouble for jumping over the school fence into a garden backing onto the school or who whacked them in the head repeatedly last week.

Its not about public shaming. Its about acknowledgement of a problem, which the other children need to see to. Its the start of the concept of justice - actions have consequences. And actually even SEN kids need to learn the social boundaries of what is acceptable and what isn't even if this is hard for them. It's not OK for them to hit Charlie anymore than it isnt OK for any other kid.

Behaviour charts are a simple way to show this consequence.

Otherwise it's just having a chat and no consequences. Especially if the parents are feckless and do nothing over behaviour either.