How to change school policy

[Pookielumchum]

There's a school policy i believe needs changing. I reached out to other parents on a private parent Facebook group, and it turned out several parents agreed with me. I went to the headteacher and said, I and these other parents want change. Can we address the policy." She said that no one had minded before. So it wasn't a problem before I brought it up. And it wouldn't be appropriate for me to bring the other parents in with me. And she wouldn't accept a poll showing all the parents who want a change. How is one supposed to fix things, if not by working together as a group of parents?

She doesn't have to endure comments on her revealed body by members of the opposite sex, and she doesn't have to see the body of members of the opposite sex
Of course she doesn't, and she won't; in Reception.

WTF! Handicap bathrooms!

Where are you from, OP?

Accessible toilets -not handicap bathrooms- are not there for people who just happen to have kids.

This has to be a wind up. From the absolute batshit insane idea that single sex changing should be a thing in reception. Most children in reception are just getting to grips with getting dressed and undressed independently.

To the idea that "handicapped" bathrooms are family bathrooms is just icing on the wind up cake.

Everyone knows they are accessible toilets and necessary for many disabled people to be able to go out, they are not "family bathrooms" to be used by every family who can't possibly be split up for 30 seconds. If your children are toddlers or older, use the ladies.

handicap bathrooms
Oh dear.

I have 2 young children as well (both boys) and I take them to the (female) toilets with me. Your arguments are getting weaker and weaker I'm afraid.

I'm not at all bothered about reception children getting changed in the same room - I actually think it sexualises them early to split them for changing at that age. But if you want it changing and you seriously believe it's a safeguarding issue, go to the governors. I do think you're being ridiculous though (and I'm an advocate of single gender spaces generally!).

Did you change nappies in a nappy changing room when they were younger?

I’m actually flabbergasted that you’re making this a thing and that you feel the need to put cycling shorts on your daughter on PE days.

Because this is Mumsnet and outside of this rather eclectic site virtually nobody care about it until the age of 10.

OP, is there something critical that you are leaving out here? What is it about your daughter that makes you think other little children are going to comment?

Have you got her an offensive tattoo?

Many primary schools don't even have a male teacher so who is meant to supervise the boys if single-sex changing is introduced for 4/5 year olds?

My babies are 8 months and 2. Am i meant to leave them in the shopping center while I help my 4 year old? I am baffled. And I have knee problems that make it very difficult to use the regular toilets (whole thing; had surgery, still painful). Also, um. Sorry. Where I'm from handicap is the right word. Had no clue this wasn't okay. But happy to learn I've misspoken. Very agressive crowd here.

Where on Earth are you from that “handicap” is acceptable?

Which other offensive terms are used there? Do you have spastics, cripples and flids too?

Op I think you’re view is actually quite dangerous

kids at that age of course need guidance but that guidance should be appropriate

the reason for single sex changing rooms coming in later is because that’s when minds develop and kids start noticing these sorts of things

there is no need to brings such negativity into them at such young age

god we all did PE in knickers and vests for years!

let your child be innocent

your view is quite disturbing

and no one in the world says handicap anymore

Dang. Logging off. Y'all. Please get offline and learn how to speak politely to people with differing views and experiences. I'm an immigrant, so there's that. In my native country, we'd NEVER have children away from their parents changing in a mixed-sex space. Obviously changing nappies is different - in my culture, the cut-off for mixed sex is when they're expected to do it themselves vs. when they are being physically changed by a carer. Here the cut-off for mixed-sex seems to be puberty. It's just a different boundary. Everyone at home is baffled when I bring this up. It's so very clearly a social norms issue. Not a sexualization issue.

I'm aware we all have different sensibilities - the only reason I rose the issue with the administration was because when I asked other mums (on a Facebook group, as an anonymous post, so they were responding voluntarily) they all said they also felt uncomfortable and dressed their daughters in extra clothes due to the policy. Others were unaware and reached out also. On their own. Not even knowing who i was. I don't expect everything to change for me. Particularly because I'm foreign and am working to adapt to differing norms. I only spoke up because so many other mums also cared.

English is not everyone's first language. I moved here last year from a foreign country. So, I'm happy to learn, but no need to be aggressive. We're all people behind these screens.

And. Yes. I have to use the accessibility loos. I have knee problems. My daughter still sometimes needs help, and we can't physical fit together in a stall with my two sons who are 2 and under 1.

My whole point in this post was simply to learn about procedures for interacting with school governance because the process is quite different to my home country.

I'm logging off now. I accept all of your apologies for being so very un-British Values in your responses (The school website goes on and on about those constantly. It seems to entail being polite and "getting on with it.") because I am so gracious.

Why does it matter at reception age? Yabu.

So you’ve moved to a new country and rather than try to fit in you are getting upset about cultural differences here, and kicking up a fuss because it’s different where you come from?

Have you no idea how offensive you are being?

@Pookielumchum

Not even knowing who i was. I don't expect everything to change for me

But you do. You have arrived in a new country, decided that you have the right to abuse the disabled toilets, use backward, insulting language about the disabled, and think that your child’s school should change how they work to match your culture from back home.

Why would you possibly think that this is acceptable?

Yabu OP in a lot of ways.

There is no need for 4/5 year olds to change separately. Your use of disabled toilets is unreasonable and your language offensive.

OP. To be fair, if you had said, from when people started saying that changing together from Reception was normal, that you were from a different country with a different culture, people would have been more understanding. Similarly if you had said when you first mentioned using 'handicap bathrooms' that you had a disability then.

If you leave out key information then it is not surprising people are less than tolerant with highly unusual opinions and highly outdated (and for many pretty offensive) wording. Maybe take it as a compliment that your written English is so fluent that no one questioned where you are from.

Schools tend to adapt quite well these days to different religious requirements (eg secondary schools allowing girls to wear headscarves), but will be less likely to change something purely for cultural reasons coming from outside this country.

The majority, I think, of people in the UK think sex-separation for children should start just before/at puberty. That is 'our' norm. We are still fighting very hard for true equality for women, not just in legislation which is mainly there, but in fighting against gender stereotypes. It is short steps from separating for changing (or encouraging unnecessary extra clothes on girls whilst changing) to separating for other things too...

(e.g. A council house only becomes overcrowded when a family is in a 2 bed house with a boy and a girl when the eldest gets to 10).

Thinking further.
If there are a number of parents of girls wanting them to be separated / cover up at your school, why is this? Are there more immigrant families from your culture there? Are there parents of boys too? Is there an issue in the parenting of boys from your culture which encourages feeling 'above' girls and thus the boys are more likely to point at and laugh at girls bodies when changing?

Even if this is not a cultural issue, why should girls have to be separated or cover up rather than addressing the behaviour of the boys?

Basically this.

I don't really understand the issue tbh. The school already accommodates children whose families don't want them changing in front of the opposite sex by allowing them to change in the toilets. Could you not ask for your child to be allowed to change with this group?

For most people, this just isn't an issue for this age group. This summer, I've taken small, mixed groups of 4 year olds to the splash pool and outdoor lido with other mums and they've happily started stripping off in front of each other to get their swim things on, no reservations or body consciousness.

Ridiculous. When I was at infants school we did pe in our pants! By instilling sex segregation you are implying there's shame. Being open and free is a far better approach in my opinion.

Ps at the lido everyone, including adults, dresses on the side, this is in the U.K.- many don't both with shuffling around with a towel and strip right off, very open and nobody bats an eyelid. So much more healthy an attitude, I'm currently in Germany and people are swimming naked in the hotel pool!

Yep!! Much simpler times.

@Pookielumchum Presumably your daughter is 4, we were running around naked in & out of my paddling pool at that age and knickers for PE. What they NEED to learn at that age is their bodies enable them to have fun running/scooting/swinging/jumping etc. NOT that their differences make any difference!

Theyve made provision for religion/culture already - trying to change traditional British culture/behaviour to a different culture isn't on. Use the options offered or change schools. Reception aged girls don't need modesty shirts either, they just need proper fitting knickers, not gaping gussets.

Honestly in reception I don’t think it’s an issue. I guess if it’s not the norm in your culture then I understand you being uncomfortable with it but I’m not sure you’ll be able to change this. I’m not sure why they just don’t say send the children in to school wearing PE kit for that day. I would have thought that would make things easier for everyone including teaching and support staff.