Upset about being told off by Ds's teacher, my four year old does not want to learn 'Sounds write'.

[FlllightAttendant]

Oh golly, just got back from school with a 'note' to me in his book. It says 'I have put some letters in his bag, please practise these with him. If this is not clear, please ask.'

Ok, we have tried 'practising' these sounds, he is NOT INTERESTED. They have been there since september. I have written in his book, 'Ds is not really into reading/writing but he enjoys sounding out words to me sometimes'. They have just ignored it and are now putting the pressure on.

He is four fgs, all he wants to go to school for is to wallop the other little boys and play fart games, and be walloped in return.

He is not interested in reading, I thought they understood that - reception is about playing, non?

I just feel defeated. How do I handle this, once I have gathered myself into something resembling calm?

I am probably overreacting but it just feels like they are expecting too much. I don't want to force him into reading etc as it will put him off for life.

I think it is really important that you find a way for him to practise the letters - even if it means finding rude words like 'poo' for 'p', 'wee' for 'w' etc - find something on his wavelength.

I know he is still very little, but I do think reading is the single most important thing for them to master in the infants. My friend who teaches Y1 but has also taught KS2 says that for the children who haven't 'got' the reading sorted, EVERYTHING else can slip, because the reading is such a fundamental part of the learning. Obviously it's not the only important thing, but I do think they need to be as secure as possible as early as possible!

Taken from an article in the Times September 2007 - can't do link sorry.
... children in France, Portugal, Belgium, and Norway start school at 6, while the school starting age in many Scandinavian countries is 7. This is the starting age in Finland, where students recently beat those from 39 other countries to come out tops in maths, science and reading, according to a study by the Programme for International Student Assessment

Today, arguments in favour of the UK?s early starting age usually centre around the need to level the playing field for children from disadvantaged backgrounds but, paradoxically, a study by the Organisation for Economic Cooperation and Development indicated that by the time they reach their teens, the gap between the achievements of students from professional and working-class backgrounds is wider in the UK than in most other countries. Caroline Sharp, of the National Foundation for Educational Research, sums it up thus: ?There appears to be no compelling educational rationale for a school starting age of 5 or for the practice of admitting four-year-olds to reception classes.?

So why do UK children embark on formal education at an age when most of their continental counterparts are following a more play-based kindergarten programme? It all dates back to 1870, when MPs plumped for 5 as the school starting age to protect children from exploitation at home or unhealthy conditions in the streets. Despite continuous calls for it to be reviewed, it has never been changed.

Today, arguments in favour of the UK?s early starting age usually centre around the need to level the playing field for children from disadvantaged backgrounds but, paradoxically, a study by the Organisation for Economic Cooperation and Development indicated that by the time they reach their teens, the gap between the achievements of students from professional and working-class backgrounds is wider in the UK than in most other countries. Caroline Sharp, of the National Foundation for Educational Research, sums it up thus: ?There appears to be no compelling educational rationale for a school starting age of 5 or for the practice of admitting four-year-olds to reception classes.?

Not wishing to be argumentative, but I don't see anything in the note that the teacher sent that 'Told you off'. She asked you to do something and said to tell her if her meaning was unclear. That isn't a telling off.

I don't think anyone is saying that reading isn't important. Just that in a class of children varying in age by a year, expecting them all to be at the same place when it comes to readiness to learn to read is misguided.

Like I said, by this point in reception, my ds did not know his sounds. He picked them up over this term, and was sound by the end of reception. But he still couldn't read. By the start of year 1 he could. Now in year 2, at 6.5, he is a free reader, which is above average (although not for MN of course ).

I disagree that they need to be reading as early as possible. Actually, I don't disagree. I'm just not sure that it is always 'possible' when it is set down in the scheme of work that they should be.

I think F.A. has been made to feel she isn't doing enough letter work with her DS, although, I'm pretty sure this wasn't the teachers intention.

Will be back - DH home!

yes yes they dont learn to read formally until 7 in france

but they spend the time before that learning to write - and not in a lovely heuristic way either, in a very strict rote way

fgs learning a few letter sounds isn't exactly hothousing them

really surprised at some of the attitudes here

yes of course they are all at different stages

some kdis in dd2s reception class can read very well already

some are still learning letter sounds - they just want you to practise with him thats all, they arent having a go. Don't feel that they are criticising your son either, they are trying to help him!

oh fgs you dont live in blardy finland. Just practice the letters already [frustrated]

anyway dont the scandiwegians have the highest suicide rate in Europe?

Imo Reading is one of the greatest gifts we can give our children. If we can encourage it outside of school then al the better.

If he is not interested then make it fun. Eye Spy, magnets, bath letters. As a kid we always used to look for letters on number plates on lorries and it would get quite competive.

Somewhere there will be a flicker of interest in him and the hard part is identifying where it is. I agree you shouldnt push so hard as to put him off but try and get creative

Re suicide link that is because in Scandinavia all they have is the fishing and the fucking, and in the winter they can't fish

Learning a rew letter sounds isn't hot houseing them, but my DS jsut isn't picking them up, despite being introduced to jolly phonics at nursery, me having read numerous alphabet books repeatedly, the whole family pointing out letters etc - he just isn't "getting" it - yet. Luckily his teacher has faith, as do I. We have been sent home letters and words to learn, like everyone else in the class. DH, DS1 and I all helped him try and learn them. We nearly got there with one word - after some thought he decided "to" was "ot".

FlllightAttendant - I think Buda gave you some excellent advice un her first post.

I need to step away from this thread now.

Just remeber children at 4 do not have to be at school let alone expecting them to read. My dd is 10 and i had all this bullshit from teachers and competitive mothers in the playground back then and dare say will get it again with my ds. He is 4 and the nonsense of he should be doing this and doing that to meet the lovely Gordon Browns targets has started already. Let me say they all get there in the end some quicker than others and yes reading is a gift but the way some mothers carry on they would rather there children could recite War and Peace rather than the Mr Men books just so they can brag to there Boden wearing Mums in the playground. Yes flightattendant you have every right to be sensitive as really this is your childs education blah blah but the time with your children is too precious to be worrying about sounds, they will be fine inthe end. Carry on walloping and farting i say, let them ENJOY CHILDHOOD!!!

Thanks LS, don't blame you! Sorry, I had to go and get tea.

I am sorry if I managed to foster some big dissent on this thread. I didn't mean to.

MB for the record, I interpreted it as a 'telling off' due to the fact it had been asked before, and her note was a reiteration, with the added 'if this is not clear' being rather a sarky addition imo, because she knows I understand the instructions...we have met, etc. and I'm not obviously thick! I have also explained about his reluctance so was surprised to find further comment which appeared to counter her previous 'acceptance' of his preferences etc.

I also find the 'please ask' a bit as there is never a chance to speak to her about anything. (Except once a term, a ten minute appt.)

I will think about all your comments. Thanks very much for getting involved and giving me some interesting observations

Well, Fllllllllly, you know what sort of thing I'll say...

What is the HURRY with this learning to read and write lark?

Much much better for children to do it at their own pace rather than be labelled a failure because they aren't quite getting it before they are even 4 and a half.

Come on over to the HE ghetto where people don't believe their children should read EVER because we are all ANTI LEARNING oh yes oh yes oh yes, and that's why we don't send our children to school.

(ok, I'm getting silly now, time to do something about my blood sugar)

FA, I'm sure you are not thick either

But I don't think that you can infer that she was being sarky because she offered help, if help were needed.

I always tell my kids in school, 'ask for help if you need it' and I know that they are not thick!

(Says someone whose mother used to write my kindergarton diary for me to copy out ) my advice, fwiw, is not to make a big deal about the work that doesn't particularly interest him at present. They all progress in fits and starts and his vocabulary like "symmetrical" indicates his intelligence. Strike a deal, 15 mins of whatever h/w, making it as positive as you can, (note to teacher if incomplete so she can see effort is being made), and 15 mins of Bomberman/ building a Lego empire!

The corollary to this would be sneak in other things into daily life that promote his enjoyment of words and reading, like visits to the library, singing songs, reading together books that rhyme (Hairy Maclary, Cat in the Hat etc), playing TopTrumps, watching NumberJacks and Phonics on CBBC, using www.starfall.com/, basically anything that is language rich so that when he is ready to progress in this area, the building blocks have been laid.

MB, no you have raison, I could have simply misunderstood her motives.
Thanks x

we have some sidewalk chalk and use it on the slabs outside, we have bath crayons too and foam letters for the bath, we sometimes use paint, i pencil in a letter and they paint over it very large. It seems to make it more interesting - we aren't hothousing or anything like that but just making it a bit more fun

You aren't pushing him to read and write - you are encouraging him to learn his letters. That's all. It is fairly boring, but if he doesn't learn his letters pretty soon he will start finding school really hard work.

Do you have a very rigid idea of what practising sounds/letters is? There are so many ways of doing this through play.

I think IF you are going to keep him at school (and I realise this is a big IF) then you would be doing him no favours at all by deliberately not practising a few sounds in very playful ways - it will trickle in even if it doesn't seem to be doing so. I'm not sure why you wouldn't want to do this tbh unless it's that you really do think this is 'trying to teach him to read' and you have a moral objection to this. I don't see that helping his letter/sound awareness counts as trying formally to teach him to read any more than letting him draw and paint counts as helping him to write - even though drawing and painting will all help to lay foundations for writing).

IF you are going to keep him at school, then better a few minutes spread out over each day of you talking about letters and sounds to him for nine months before year 1, than starting year 1 having had less awareness of this than he could have. You don't have to choose between helping him with this and letting him play - you do both, it can be play. You can be very casual about it. And even if all you do is things like say casually "are you going to eat your sandwich? Hmmm, sandwich - oh look that's a word that starts with the 's' sound" every now and then, you're basically helping him in a really useful way. It can be that casual, or if you do I Spy sorts of things it can be a real game. He doesn't even have to join in as such - keep it at the dropping casual observations about sounds and letters into the conversation level and you're still helping him in that way (and basically doing what the teacher has asked you to do, so no need for any confrontation there).

If you're definitely not going to do school, then yes, ignore this. If you might, though, I wouldn't - you absolutely don't have to make it not playful, or sit down to do it, or anything like that. You're quite free to do it while keeping the pressure off him - you can help the letter sound stuff to trickle in with no pressure at all on him to perform - so it's really hard to see why you wouldn't, given that it could make a big difference to him later on if he does stay at school. There's a world of difference between awareness of letter-sound correspondences introduced gradually, casually and playfully, and formally trying to teach someone to read - for the latter, yes, readiness clearly matters and you know best, but the most basic phonics stuff is not trying to teach someone to read before they're ready, it's just laying helpful foundations.

I think the problem is that actually it isn't clear what reception is actually about. Everyone says íts only reception, they just need to play and learn social skills'. Frankly I don't want my DD to go to school 5 days a week to play and learn social skills. She is now in the education system and I expect the school to be doing some educating e.g. the 3 r's. Clearly there is a very mixed bag of children in reception and some don't want to start all the formal stuff yet however as other posters have said they will get a big shock when they go to year 1 so easing them in gently now should pay off dividends. If I were you I would take a completely different tack with the letters. Think about what he really loves and try and think of ways to apply learning letters and numbers to that. For example does he like cars? How about having a competition to read car number plates or the makes of cars or motor bikes? What about spelling out the names of his super heroes?

I'm not sure that the suicide rate of scandinavian countries is directly related to the age they start school .
Of course learning to read in a phonetical language is easier than learning to read in English. However common sense makes me think that among say 20 6 years old children there will be more children who are ready to learn how to read than among a group of 4 yrs old...

Haven't read all the thread (skimmed it) so apologies if this has been suggested.

When DS was in nursery, the manager had a brilliant way of getting the kids to "write" without them even realising they were infact writing the shapes that formed letters (rather than letters themselves).

She sung nursery rhymes and made the kids write the associated shape to go with the rhyme; it was great fun!

For instance, the song "humpty dumpty" was sung whilst the kids made a rounded capital M shape repeatedly (upside down U shape, joined up) - no gap after one M was made... iyswim.

She used "three blind mice" for a I shape (long line - not capital I) and "ring of roses / round the garden like a teddy bear" for O shape.

C shape came from O so wasnt necessary to learn to begin with but those few shapes make letters (or at least a combination of the shapes make letters) so once he has those, you can sing the songs/write and then show him what he has acheived.

It really does work - I'd suggest 3 or 5 mins a day if he will - at least 3 times a week though to have any kind of impact.

Just an idea to make it fun and playful for your DS.

tell his teachers to take a chill pill. He's only four after all, and an inventor at that! And blow-off games are hilarious everyone knows that.

A bright child will do it in his own time then whoosh be constructing dinky poems age 5 or 6!