Upset about being told off by Ds's teacher, my four year old does not want to learn 'Sounds write'.

[FlllightAttendant]

Oh golly, just got back from school with a 'note' to me in his book. It says 'I have put some letters in his bag, please practise these with him. If this is not clear, please ask.'

Ok, we have tried 'practising' these sounds, he is NOT INTERESTED. They have been there since september. I have written in his book, 'Ds is not really into reading/writing but he enjoys sounding out words to me sometimes'. They have just ignored it and are now putting the pressure on.

He is four fgs, all he wants to go to school for is to wallop the other little boys and play fart games, and be walloped in return.

He is not interested in reading, I thought they understood that - reception is about playing, non?

I just feel defeated. How do I handle this, once I have gathered myself into something resembling calm?

I am probably overreacting but it just feels like they are expecting too much. I don't want to force him into reading etc as it will put him off for life.

it should be strongly encouraged yes. we're not talking about reading war and peace at 4, we're talking about a few letter sounds. Legally a child does not have to start school until the term after his 5th birthday, so the op could have deferred for that time if she had chosen, however then chances are her ds would miss reception and the few letter sounds altogether and have been put straight into year 1 where it really is about sitting down to work.

Reading is the first basic principle of education. without being able to read, future prospects are very, very limited.

I was under the impression that children in countries that didn't start formal learning until 7 did better academically than children in the UK in the longterm, which is what really matters IMHO.

I don't think anyone is saying that FA will not encourage him when he is ready to learn to read - he just doesn't seem to be interested just yet. In 2 weeks time he may suddenly see the point or something may pique his interest.

As I said already DS (August birthday) was just not interested initially. He just wanted to play in Reception. He obv took part in whatever they were doing in class but when some (not all) children started getting word sheets he just wasn't interested. Then one day he was. The teacher was thrilled gave him lots of praise and encouragement as did I.

He then went into Year 1 and was behind some of his classmates but ahead of some others. Loved getting his words and has always loved his reading books.

He is now in Yr 2 and is teacher spoke to me today actually to tell me how well he is working now - she says he is really motivated and interested in everything they are doing and he takes it all really seriously.

Just because a child isn't interested at 4 doesn't mean they will stay that way for ever.

F. A, Your DS will want to learn to read. Maybe not this term, myabe not this school year, who knows. He is 4 and there seems to be an awfull lot of panic going on about you wanting your little boy to play. I find that really sad.

DS2's teacher has told me not to worry, and has confidence that she will teach him to read by the end of reception. (I'm not so sure, as I don't think he's ready, but I know he will be one day.)My DS has just never picked up the alphabet, no matter how fun we've made it.
Fortunately, I belive he really has a great future ahead of him.

FA I was in the same situation last January when ds started reception. he just wasn't interested in learning to read and I didn't want to force him, also because I come from a country where we start at 6 (shock! horror!). I was also quite baffled by the fact that he needed to practice letters at home after having spent 6 hrs and half at school...
we started to play a game with the letters he was given and he learnt them quite easily. (like memory game). I wouldn't stress. Do you think he might be more interested in writing? I found ds preferred to do that (I'm using the past as we have moved back to italy and he is back to nursery until september)

I didn't do anything extra with my ds in reception unless he initiated it. Which he did, eventually. Certainly not this early in the year though, when he wasn't yet 4 and a half.

In fact, I didn't always do the reading books sent home in year 1 either. The school were perfectly OK with it and said as long as he was reading and being read to it was all fine.

The key thing is that my ds was making progress at school. He was learning the sounds, and pretty much learnt to read over the summer between reception and year 1 without me really noticing, and certainly without formal input. But he did know all his JP sounds.

Could you have a chat with the teacher and ask her how things are going at school? I would caution that if they don't get these clear in reception, they don't necessarily have the same time spent on it in year 1.

Thanks Franca! Well he is less into writing. He just says 'I can't do it' no matter how much I try and encourage him. I don't know where he got the idea he can't. That does worry me a bit as I know he can make a few shapes.

I wish we lived somewhere they start at 6 or 7.

No I don't HE, but I do mix with a number of HE'ers and I guess alternative educators. And some of them would definitely have a very similar educational ideology to your own.

Whether you like it or not, schools, especially state schools, will have a scheme of work in place, and obviously most of the work is built up from certain foundations. If your ds is bright then actually in order for him to take off at school he does need to be able to read, as this skill in particular will enable him to be able to work independently, and not have to keep apace with the rest of the class. What would be more worrying is that if he fails to acquire these skills within the normal timeframe (whatever that is!), then he may be unable to move onto the more intersting work, and, if sensitive, may end up accepting a message of failure.

If you don't buy into that method of working, then I do think that you need to consider carefully what the implications are for your son, and whether this school is the right place for him now. There are other options than just HE including keeping him at a nursery or playgroup until 5, looking at a Montessori setting, looking at private schools (not all are academic hothouses!).

hand coordination can still be quite tricky at 4... I also think my ds began to feel curious re writing because his best friend at school was a great writer... the joys of peer pressure

I see what you are saying, Tellus - that this is a year to be grateful for, as he is getting a lot of time/patience with the foundation stuff. Which won't happen in yr1 I suppose.

To be honest I understand that and would be willing to take it on board if he was up for it, but he is not.

I would rather he just tell me when he wants to give it a go and then I can help him. At the moment it is just something he doesn't have time for.

I am hoping he will learn like yours did, at his own pace - that sounds very healthy to me

Look on the bright side. He's only a third of the way through the foundation stage. Seriously. My DS didn't start bringing things home at all until now. Plenty of time.

It's so sad that he's saying he can't write! My DS really can't write, apart from his name, but seems to think he can, and them asks us to read his writting back to him, which can be a bit awkward.

This is one of those threads that makes me think the whole school system needs more money / teachers.

Cornsilk mad an excellent point.

Thanks Ladymuck, that's really interesting. I hadn't really thought beyond the immediate with school - in that he lieks it at the mo, and we will see how he gets on later. But if the pressure is going to be huge then I really feel we will be up against it. He is not a child who will be made to do stuff he doesn't like - well, not a great deal anyway (brushing teeth comes to mind!!)

He may change and become more compliant, who knows. Or he may as you say, accept that he is failing in their eyes, and it might knock the life out of him in a sense.
I am going to start looking into HE a bit more.

Lynette, that must be awkward!!

I agree that Cornsilk is speaking wisely. I didn't know that statistic but had suspected it was something like that.

DS wasn't into writing either. We did lots of other things suggested by his teacher to help with the fine motor skills - PlayStation (!!), Lego, PLaydough, spraying shaving foam on a table and getting him to make shapes etc in that.

He has only really been interested in colouring over the last 6 months or so. That is good for helping with writing.

Jigsaws are good too.

Was wondering where all the strength of feeling was coming from on 'pushing children too young' but todays threads have clarified it. There seems to be so much pressure so young and the perception amongst teachers that we as parents need to be teaching at home at this age too. Also surprise when children arrive at reception but can't count, say their phonics and write their name and some other words!!!!

Recently started a thread because teach said that DS1 needed to be able to recognise his numbers as well as count and I was wondering how to go about it but then realised that he will do this when he's ready.

"I was under the impression that children in countries that didn't start formal learning until 7 did better academically than children in the UK in the longterm, which is what really matters IMHO."

Not sure that there are many industrialised countries which leave starting education until 7? When I've looked into this in the past the comparisons don't actually seem to be as valid as one might think - usually scandanavia is quoted and at least one of the countries effectively have a phonic alphabet, so reading isn't as "tricky" as starting to read English, and the proportion of children in a formal childcare setting from the age of 4 was something over 80%.

But very happy to be proven wrong! Has anyone got any links to something reliable?

I was told about Norway and starting school at 7 by Rea Reason ( education person wrote a book on learning to read, used widely in the 90's) about this in 1998 when she led a course I was on.

I am a (secondary) teacher.

I feel it IS important that children do need to do things they don't necessarily want to do at times but IMO the actual learning can't really be forced.

Hasn't the teacher just given you a good suggestion of a game to play with him at home? So if he hates it, ask her if she has any more suggestions for fun ways to play around words. Buda's suggestions are great too. I don't agree with formal homework (at any age really but espesh primary) but parents can of course focus their children's learning by being aware of what they are doing/playing with them at home (ie your symmetrical example ).

Also I agree the children are (I think) in formal childcare, learning through play. They don't just stay at home till they are 7.

I think he might have to be able to read to be an electrician though...

You see I don't see that a country with a population of 4-5m is really that good a comparison with the UK, especially as the cultural factors at play are very different. Are their educational outcomes really that much superior to the UK, and of so at what ages?

You can take a horse to water and all that....

By the end of his reception year ds1 (august born) had only just cottoned on to the letter s .
For him it was just one big social occasion. Some teachers are far too uptight, but it probably has a lot to do with crappy government targets. His teacher most likely feels stressed about her class reaching the desired 'standard'.

Whatever you do don't force him, leave it, he'll get there in the end. It's not your job to teach him his letters it's the school's.

Just say you're not prepared to force him, distress him and turn him off learning, God knows boys find it hard enough as it is. Our education system to so NOT geared to the way they learn.

If your ds lived in a scandinavian country he wouldnt be expected to go to school at all until aged 7. I am thinking in particular of Finland, where they recently have consistently demonstrated much much better academic results than UK across all subjects that were compared.(cannot do link thingys but was very recently discussed in 'The Times').
All children should be allowed to develop and learn new skills at the rate with which they feel comfortable and ready, and opportunities siezed when the time is right for that individual. We do not enforce all our children to walk/wean onto solids/potty train at the EXACT same age as each other. Some are keen earlier on than others may be but most will eventually do these things when they are ready. If we offer our time and patience to them and the tools are available to use, children will show us when they are ready to learn these new skills. I am sure that HE children who are not reading age 4 will, when they are ready, show an interest and learn very quickly how to read, because they are ready and they want to. If the teachers are making the tools available to your ds and he is not interested, why should you be pressured to force him to learn now. Would that have worked with walking/weaning/potty training? I really dont believe that it would. The wonder and beauty of children is surely that they are individuals to be cherished, just as they are. Clearly, Uk education results illustrate we are failing our children at school, and personally I am not surprised, if we have the attitude that they MUST all learn everything at the same time, in some arbitrary fashion. humphhhh!!!! End of rant.....
also, Enid, I must say that as a house of testosterone I am a little hurt at your critical attitude towards boys! farts, walloping games and muck in general are WONDERFUL and expressive and healthy!! We heart boys!!XXXXXXX