Why do we send children to school so young

[sandcastles1]

Just that really - I'm feeling really disgruntled with our school system and why we make children go into full time education from the age of 4. My dc just started and is enjoying some of it and hating lots of it. She loved the first week when it was half days. For the past four years she has been either with me or her dad - we would take her out into the woods every day. Now she's cooped up in a small room/playground for the whole time. I could have home schooled her I know but didn't think that was the best thing socially. I can see the benefits of them going but 5 days a week 9-330 just seems harsh. Why couldn't it be three days. I know up until 5 we can take them out but just wondering how others feel as I'm missing my daughter a lot, she doesn't want to be there most of the time and I really now see the virtues of other countries that don't start full time until 7. Yes it means we can work, but why is that the norm? People that don't want to spend more time with their kids could find other care the rest of the time.

I’m sorry to hear that your dd is having a difficult time settling. But for my children and many of their friends it was the perfect time to start. They were completely ready. They’d been at childminder and then nursery since just before their first birthday (because I have to work - sorry if you think we should live on fresh air) so they were used to being away from us for long periods of time. This was also the case with most of our friends children too. Delaying school wouldn’t have given them more time at home, it would just have meant more time in nursery, which to be quite honest they were ready to move on from. Maybe there should be a more flexible approach to starting dates like in the past? I’m sure when I went to school you could choose to start at either September, January or April depending on age? Although I suppose this could lead to problems of some children missing out and being left behind maybe? I don’t think delaying all children is the solution to a few who aren’t ready.

Also - 3pm finish isn’t that late. Weekends and holidays we’ve only just finished lunch and started on our afternoon activity then. You could do loads with her straight after school - a lovely country walk, swimming, a library trip. Couple that with a fun scooter ride to school and you’ve actually done loads with her and she’s been to school

My five year old is absolutely thriving at school. Loves it! By eight year old finds the work difficult but sadly I think he always will. I don’t think starting school later would have benefitted either of them.

I cried this morning because my year 1 cried going in. Same thing happened in reception he didn't settle and it's heart breaking but I feel like I have no options..

Are you happy for your taxes to rise heavily to subsidise childcare for others who don’t have the luxury of romping in the woods during work hours? Because all those other countries who don’t start formal schooling until aged 7 have subsidised childcare and much higher taxes.

Also worth remembering, for every child romping the woods, there is at least one, at home with parents who are either unwilling, or unable to give them what they need and who will suffer the longer they are out of formal schooling.

We start at 5 here, and do an extra year of pre-school rather than a reception year. DD was more than ready for formal education and she would have really struggled with another couple of years without that setting.

Your job as a parent is to help your child adjust for what is coming next.

I think it completely depends on the child and their experiences prior to starting reception. My DD started full time a fortnight ago and is loving it. She was definitely ready to start and in going full-time from the off she was used to it quickly. She’s pretty shy as well so I was expecting some reluctance, but we had none. She has been in nursery to varying degrees since she was 11m old though so is used to being left and forming relationships with other adult. Personally I saw attending nursery/pre-school as one of the key ways to prepare her for full-time education and presume that this is why the government (partially) funds 30 hours for 3year olds.

Tbh I agree with PP who are somewhat offended by the inference that I’m just desperate to palm her off on someone else. I have a career and I juggle that with my role as a parent; that means childcare was a necessity but was also hugely beneficial in terms of socialisation for my DD.

I actually find the school day staggeringly short and find that it leaves plenty of time for play, outings, chat etc with DD both pre / post school and of course there are weekends and school holidays for family time.

Plus yes totally agree that for some unlucky children it offers some stability, proper food and oversight for the first time in their life and the earlier that can start the better imo.

And just for the record for the people posting that I didn't prepare DC for school - it simply isn't true. I put her into summer camps to prep her as best I could beforehand and walked her to the school pretty much every day throughout the summer to look through the gates and talk about what would happen. We bought story books about starting school and read them together and she talked to my friend's older children about what would happen and what things they do. I couldn't put her into nursery because of Covid and a family member who has complicated health issues and was at very high risk of dying if they were to catch it. It wasn't an easy choice. She was in nursery a bit before Covid. She isn't actually struggling per se, she's doing quite well and better than others. She just is a bit different and I'm not enjoying it much either and it's what others are experiencing. I think it's an interesting debate worth having rather than just accepting what I feel is a system founded on capitalism - and not necessarily what is actually best pedagogically for the children. I can't change the system now, but this experience has changed my opinion and I'd like to see they system change in the future - which realistically I know it won't - and that's where the frustration lies.

Maybe there should be a more flexible approach to starting dates like in the past? I’m sure when I went to school you could choose to start at either September, January or April depending on age? Although I suppose this could lead to problems of some children missing out and being left behind maybe?

Yes, that's exactly why that stopped being common practice; it was shown that it really disadvantages the youngest because it gives them the worst of all worlds - they're still the youngest in the class but they also have less time in school than the older children. Deferral seems a much better option, and is becoming increasingly mainstream.

Totally agree with you OP.

My dd has just started reception and I am heart broken. As is she. She asked before bed last night if she could have a longer weekend with mummy and daddy because she misses us. I almost cried.

If you look at educational stats from places like Scandinavian countries. They are incredible. Children don't start school until 7 and also don't learn to read until then either.
But they also offer much better work life balance with a lot of companies offering 10-4 working days.

Family life is the highest importance there and it literally comes last in the uk which is shocking. It seems more admirable to work 60 hour weeks and catch up on work on weekends rather than spending time at home with loved ones.

I don't deny school has its benefits of course. But it should be more of a preschool vibe until at least 7 and definitely only 3 days a week.

@NerrSnerr

People that don't want to spend more time with their kids could find other care the rest of the time.

Or maybe they'd love to be home all the time but need to work to pay the mortgage.

All 4 year olds are different. My youngest has just started reception and he loves it and is a definitely ready. He has been in childcare for at least 3 days a week for a number of years now.

If you look at other countries where they start 'school' at 7 they have a kindergarten system which is similar to our KS1.

Exactly. (your final paragraph) I'm in one of those countries and KS1 in the UK is almost exactly what ours do at nursery. I did some teacher training with primary teachers here and they were astonished that UK kids start so young, until we compared exactly what is done in schools at what age. A British 5 year old is doing exactly what our 5 year olds are doing, except ours do it in nursery.

Oh FFS OP, get a grip.

Not everyone who sends their kids to school at 3 and 4 does it because they don't like their kids. Some people need to work and aren't privileged enough to be able to be picky about the hours they do.

Some people also realise and accept that they cannot be everything to their children and they're children need more than what they can offer them. Some parents recognise they are not the best people to teach their children due to their own academic short comings. Some parents recognise that their children thrive with their peers.

Mainstream education is not for every child or family. But just because you don't like it there is no need to make sweeping generalisations and derogatory remarks about parents and families who do like it or have no other choice than to use it.

@CaddieDawg

I'm sorry but I think this is because you haven't done your job by preparing her (and yourself) for the change rather than the system being wrong. If she's genuinely too young, defer her til next year or homeschool. Be thankful you have those choices.

I was secretly thinking this too....

Most people I know have to do nursery at least part time from the age of one, and then obviously the nursery pre school or seperate pre school. So school isn’t really a big shock and just seems a natural progression. My DD is a July baby but I don’t have any concerns about her starting next year.

I think if you haven’t done nursery or a significant amount of hours at pre school it’s going to be a shock and a different experience for them. Not saying there’s a right or wrong, but it will be more of a transition.

Exactly. (your final paragraph)
I'm in one of those countries and KS1 in the UK is almost exactly what ours do at nursery. I did some teacher training with primary teachers here and they were astonished that UK kids start so young, until we compared exactly what is done in schools at what age.
A British 5 year old is doing exactly what our 5 year olds are doing, except ours do it in nursery.
Geamhradh - that's really interesting - what are the school hours for the different ages?

You could always home school? 🤔

Did you utilise your funded hours for nursery?

Also worth remembering, for every child romping the woods, there is at least one, at home with parents who are either unwilling, or unable to give them what they need and who will suffer the longer they are out of formal schooling.

This. It’s wonderful that you can give your DC a wholesome, outdoorsy extremely middle class informal education, OP, but thousands of parents can’t, or won’t. A system built for all won’t suit some, but there are workarounds and they are available to you.

Convenience for parents, how many of us could afford fulltime childcare for 6/7 years?

I really do wonder how much of this is how your daughter feels about school and how much is you projecting onto her. It's a bit surprising that a four year old has a specific view on the length of the school day unless she's been told that it's very long for her.

@MrsSkylerWhite

Agree with you. Don’t have the answers though. Suspect that not starting full time schooling until 7 would make working life very difficult for millions of people informs policy 🤷‍♀️

But most European countries don’t start full time schooling until 6 or 7 and somehow their economies survive too!! Not to talk about some of the amazing subsidised state nurseries in some of those countries.

@Keepitonthedownlow

School starts at age 5 here in Scotland, and the first year is play based. That seems right to me. Nursery is 3-4/5.

In scotland the youngest will be 4½ so they don't all start age 5. Both mine were 4 when they started P1

Also, my husband started school at 7, at nursery (most children attend and extremely subsidised) he learned essentially what UK pupils learn in years R and 1.

Other countries where the formal learning starts at 7 don't 'just' keep their children at home until then. They all start some form of nursery around 5 years, and by the time the children get to 7 they can all read, write and have the basic KS1 maths skills which ours have. They just call it something different. The formal sit down in a class learning happens at 7 / KS2, and yes, the children are more or less at the same point (can read, write and are starting to understand how maths works).

In Scandinavia the taxes are very high to pay for their reception / early years system, and a lot of women end up going back to work in this system, to look after someone else's child whilst their own goes to another school. It's not all the ideal system which some seem to think that it is.

If your child isn't ready for Reception then investigate whether if summer born they could defer for a year, if you could home school for a year or other alternatives such as Montessori for a year or so, but fundamentally all KS1 education is the same, whether this country or others.

Personally my children were already trying to read and count when they went into Reception (April and August borns) - they were completely ready to start education and if they hadn't started then, they would have taught themselves to read within 6 months without any input from me. I was sad to see them go at this point but it was in their best interests to start learning and they both loved it.

People that don't want to spend more time with their kids could find other care the rest of the time.

You can fuck off with this.

But most European countries don’t start full time schooling until 6 or 7 and somehow their economies survive too!! Not to talk about some of the amazing subsidised state nurseries in some of those countries.

Do you... not see the connection between your two sentences there? Their economies are fine because their children are in nurseries (normally for longer hours than a school day), doing pretty similar stuff to what ours do in reception but without calling it 'school'.