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Original poster

Why do we send children to school so young

511 replies

sandcastles1 · 20/09/2021 10:35

Just that really - I'm feeling really disgruntled with our school system and why we make children go into full time education from the age of 4. My dc just started and is enjoying some of it and hating lots of it. She loved the first week when it was half days. For the past four years she has been either with me or her dad - we would take her out into the woods every day. Now she's cooped up in a small room/playground for the whole time. I could have home schooled her I know but didn't think that was the best thing socially. I can see the benefits of them going but 5 days a week 9-330 just seems harsh. Why couldn't it be three days. I know up until 5 we can take them out but just wondering how others feel as I'm missing my daughter a lot, she doesn't want to be there most of the time and I really now see the virtues of other countries that don't start full time until 7. Yes it means we can work, but why is that the norm? People that don't want to spend more time with their kids could find other care the rest of the time.

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Coffeepants · 23/09/2021 18:44

No, it’s asking for a more inclusive society where women don’t have to make that choice. Men too. It works well in other countries where family is seen as important such as Holland.

We are very focused on work here but our productivity is nowhere near other countries yet we are proud of working long hours and putting our kids in childcare (when we have a choice). This is not judgement, it’s fact.

Susannahmoody · 23/09/2021 18:45

School based pre school provision isn't suitable for working parents due to the hours and the fact it doesn't come with out of school provision ....so why would that be any different if we extended that to age 7

^

Pre school education needs to be subsidised, from birth, for all kids. We pay $160 per MONTH for full time daycare.

Coffeepants · 23/09/2021 18:45

Yes it does. The change starts with the government.

Original poster
sandcastles1 · 23/09/2021 18:46

@MintJulia

As a single mum I needed to work so DS starting at 4 + four weeks was a blessing in terms of cutting child care costs.

Thankfully my ds had stood outside primary school since 3.5 and said 'why can't I go too mummy?'. He's loved it ever since so I didn't have to cope with any guilt. I missed him but he was ready.

I guess more people working means GDP is higher, tax take is higher, the need for benefits is less.

I'm a single mum too, DC likes school on the whole and has said similar to yours for a long time.

I'm not suggesting people's salaries change, so GDP and taxes wouldn't either.

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Original poster
sandcastles1 · 23/09/2021 18:50

@SkinnyMirror

My comments were largely directed to posters who have wondered why would happen to women’s careers, progression, etc. this implies we are not talking about making ends meet. Which is all well and good but my response to that is that I am choosing differently.

And that's exactly my point. Why should women only be working to make ends meet. Why is it wrong to have a career and want to progress in that career? Any reduction in school hours has a direct impact on women's careers ( as we saw during the pandemic). When you start talking about not buying gadgets, cars etc you are passing judgement on women who work because they want to not just because they need to.

It might not be your intention but that's how it comes across.

We could survive on my husband's salary but I don't want to for a number of reasons. I'm not comfortable not being financially independent and my career means a lot to me and I've invested an awful lot of time and money in it. That doesn't make me a bad parent.
I'm a university academic and I research women's career development so it's a subject a feel very strongly about!

But if society restructured and valued giving people time (men and women) to spend with children it wouldn't damage women's career - in the current system yes - but me, and I think Coffepants are asking what if.....
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Magicalwoodlands · 23/09/2021 18:51

It isn’t just about work, though.

Schools don’t exist for the whims of working parents, as many teachers here like to tartly remind parents. The 9-3 (or thereabouts) school day has existed for a good hundred years prior to women working being an established fact.

Poverty is extremely detrimental to children’s outcomes at all levels. Education is a leveller for this. Romping in woods is delightful, but learning to read is ultimately far more conducive - and a love of reading takes you further than your body could ever manage.

MarshaBradyo · 23/09/2021 18:53

I know we have more expensive childcare compared to other countries

I’d not say no to that changing but I’d still like school and learning at same age for dc as they are keen

Also having just been in park which is not dark and seeing dc run around with loads of energy making friends as she usually does I think I don’t have the type who is worn out by 6 hours pre school

MarshaBradyo · 23/09/2021 18:55

Op I don’t think you should not take her out just because most don’t want the same as you.

I’m sure children will be fine with it

SkinnyMirror · 23/09/2021 18:55

But if society restructured and valued giving people time (men and women) to spend with children it wouldn't damage women's career - in the current system yes - but me, and I think Coffepants are asking what if.....

I'd still think starting school at 4 was a good idea. Many children are ready at this point especially if they've already engaged in formal childcare.

If it doesn't work for your child then there are options.

Original poster
sandcastles1 · 23/09/2021 18:57

@Magicalwoodlands

It isn’t just about work, though.

Schools don’t exist for the whims of working parents, as many teachers here like to tartly remind parents. The 9-3 (or thereabouts) school day has existed for a good hundred years prior to women working being an established fact.

Poverty is extremely detrimental to children’s outcomes at all levels. Education is a leveller for this. Romping in woods is delightful, but learning to read is ultimately far more conducive - and a love of reading takes you further than your body could ever manage.

As I put in a previous post - the time table was set during the industrial revolution by industrialists wanting people to be available for work. Work was the starting point.

Matters began to move forward, however, in 1869 when the recently formed National Education League began its campaign for free, compulsory and non-religious education for all children.

Below quote from this website www.parliament.uk/about/living-heritage/transformingsociety/livinglearning/school/overview/1870educationact/
The views expressed by industrialists that mass education was vital to the nation's ability to maintain its lead in manufacture carried considerable weight in Parliament. A Bill which met many, but not all, of the League's wishes was drafted and introduced by W. E. Forster, and quickly passed.

The leveling debate is really important and a very difficult aspect to this

I'm not proposing romping in the woods with no attention to literacy and numeracy - I think they all link in together. That's what Forest schools are doing and that's exciting. Why not make some of that the mainstream and let me do a bit on a Wednesday afternoon.

OP posts:
SkinnyMirror · 23/09/2021 18:57

Jeez..... f/t childcare was £900 per month for us!

Tiredmum100 · 23/09/2021 18:58

I think for some children, school is the only form of stability in their life. Where they get fed and watered regularly. Some children are at high risk of neglect and for that reason alone I believe school at an early age is a good thing. Not everyone is living in a fortunate position.

On the flip side if you can, take your dd out of school if you feel it Will benefit her more. Both my dc started full Time school the term before their 4th birthday. Both were fine, but every child is different.

Original poster
sandcastles1 · 23/09/2021 19:00

@SkinnyMirror

But if society restructured and valued giving people time (men and women) to spend with children it wouldn't damage women's career - in the current system yes - but me, and I think Coffepants are asking what if.....

I'd still think starting school at 4 was a good idea. Many children are ready at this point especially if they've already engaged in formal childcare.

If it doesn't work for your child then there are options.

I'm not saying don't start education at 4 - I'm saying do that but in a slightly different way with some done at home. And yes, there are options - but it makes her different, and my surprise on this thread is that we are the minority and difference is met with vitriol and I'm not sure I want to put her through that, plus, like others - I can't afford it.
OP posts:
SkinnyMirror · 23/09/2021 19:00

Poverty is extremely detrimental to children’s outcomes at all levels. Education is a leveller for this.

This is a really important point.

SkinnyMirror · 23/09/2021 19:02

I'm saying do that but in a slightly different way with some done at home.

But it's the 'doing some at home' that causes the biggest issues. It's difficult for working parents and would further widen the disadvantage gap.

Original poster
sandcastles1 · 23/09/2021 19:04

@SkinnyMirror

I'm saying do that but in a slightly different way with some done at home.

But it's the 'doing some at home' that causes the biggest issues. It's difficult for working parents and would further widen the disadvantage gap.

In the current system - but if work is structured differently - so is home life.
OP posts:
MarshaBradyo · 23/09/2021 19:05

difference is met with vitriol

It’s really not.

It’s the other people don’t care enough posts that get the reaction. Surely you can see that

If this thread had been different and you had asked should I take her out because this and that I’m willing to bet a majority yes.

No one will care just do it if you will feel happy about it.

aSofaNearYou · 23/09/2021 19:05

but it makes her different, and my surprise on this thread is that we are the minority and difference is met with vitriol and I'm not sure I want to put her through that, plus, like others - I can't afford it.

Difference is not met with vitriol. Privilege and it's resulting judgemental attitudes, are met with vitriol.

SkinnyMirror · 23/09/2021 19:12

In the current system - but if work is structured differently - so is home life.

Only for the privileged and the parents that are engaged in their children's lives and education.

Not all families are like this.

Rosewaterblossom · 23/09/2021 19:12

My dd is an October baby. By the time she started school she was nearly 5 and MORE than ready to start school.

My ds is January born and could easily have started reception the September before he turned 4 in January as he was more than ready.

Leaving it until 6 or 7 is just ridiculous because most children are more than ready to start reception, which is mostly learning through play, between ages 4 and 5.

Original poster
sandcastles1 · 23/09/2021 19:17

@MarshaBradyo

difference is met with vitriol

It’s really not.

It’s the other people don’t care enough posts that get the reaction. Surely you can see that

If this thread had been different and you had asked should I take her out because this and that I’m willing to bet a majority yes.

No one will care just do it if you will feel happy about it.

But I wasn't asking that, I was asking does everyone want the system to be like this - and your saying you do.
OP posts:
LoomBoom · 23/09/2021 19:20

By all means homeschool her.
Lots of children are happy at school and grow up fine. Would you like the government to pay for you to have jollies with your 4 year olds, enjoying sunshine days, learning to read cafe menus between and fund seaside trips between 9-3pm, as well as hand cheques to parents so they don't have to work?

MarshaBradyo · 23/09/2021 19:21

Yes I do.

But I don’t see why you have to not do what you want because of the answers.

She doesn’t have to feel different. As long as she is also happy to miss out on school time I wouldn’t not do it due to other people not wanting the same thing as you.

NerrSnerr · 23/09/2021 19:21

Come on OP you knew that the below comment was going to cause arguments. Are you honestly saying it's not judgemental?

People that don't want to spend more time with their kids could find other care the rest of the time.

Mangofandangoo · 23/09/2021 19:24

My daughter is 4.5 and loves school, she also loved preschool. She's very social and has an an amazing group of friends - they can't get that for being at home or in the woods every day.

Also I have a mortgage to pay and she's too young to send out to work 😆