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Primary education

Join our Primary Education forum to discuss starting school and helping your child get the most out of it.

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Original poster

Why do we send children to school so young

511 replies

sandcastles1 · 20/09/2021 10:35

Just that really - I'm feeling really disgruntled with our school system and why we make children go into full time education from the age of 4. My dc just started and is enjoying some of it and hating lots of it. She loved the first week when it was half days. For the past four years she has been either with me or her dad - we would take her out into the woods every day. Now she's cooped up in a small room/playground for the whole time. I could have home schooled her I know but didn't think that was the best thing socially. I can see the benefits of them going but 5 days a week 9-330 just seems harsh. Why couldn't it be three days. I know up until 5 we can take them out but just wondering how others feel as I'm missing my daughter a lot, she doesn't want to be there most of the time and I really now see the virtues of other countries that don't start full time until 7. Yes it means we can work, but why is that the norm? People that don't want to spend more time with their kids could find other care the rest of the time.

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aSofaNearYou · 22/09/2021 12:30

@Coffeepants

I have not suggested people have to be destitute. Simply questioning why the system is so rigid that we feel four year olds must learn how to read and be in school for 6 hours a day. Their brains are not even fully developed yet. I get that the system is not prefect and this is what we have made work but shouldn’t we try to improve it or just settle for it because it’s not that bad?

Without severely improving the economy so people didn't have to work - which is surely the pipe dream for most completely unconnected to concerns about the schooling issue, and would require pretty much a complete overhaul of society - I can't see any way we can just say "oh it's better for kids not to be in school for 6 hours a day". That's the point. We could aim to change what school is like when they are there, but it is naive to think we could just start sending them less.

MarshaBradyo · 22/09/2021 12:33

Tbh six hours isn’t too much for them. They want more generally as they get older too - clubs and fun stuff to do and be challenged by.

I’ve found the idea that dc want less all the time off for a while. Particularly in lady 18 months.

So many dc love being active and mind’s active and stretched

MarshaBradyo · 22/09/2021 12:33

Lady - last

Natsku · 22/09/2021 19:52

@toomuchlaundry

I’m sure a lot of children in countries who don’t learn to read or write formally before they are 6 are exposed to at least reading before then at home. Isn’t there some thought that Finnish children partly learn to read as many of their tv programmes are subtitled?

DS started asking me what letters were before he started school and picked up reading quite quickly. I’m sure he would have been very frustrated if I told him he couldn’t learn to read before he was 6

The subtitles helps reinforce the learning but I don't think many are learning to read before school from subtitles on TV (it seems to me it helps them learn English quicker, so they don't have to read the subtitles while watching telly!). From my limited experience, there were 2 children in my DD's preschool class (which started the year they turn 6 and was the first year of semi-formal learning, before that was daycare which was definitely nothing like KS1 in the UK) who could read to a certain degree before school started, the rest could not read at all. They only learnt the alphabet and numbers in that first year, they didn't actually start learning to read until 1st grade which was the year they turn 7 (calendar year, so Feb born DD was the oldest at 7.5 years old). They did learn very quickly once they started though, but its much easier in Finnish (there's a finite number of syllables that all words are made up of so they learnt all the different syllables and from there, putting the syllables together to read the whole word was easy)

User5827372728 · 22/09/2021 19:55

Countries that start school at 7 still have kindergartens which kids attend from the age of 4, so it’s not that different.

Natsku · 22/09/2021 19:58

Its very different, at least in Finland, päiväkoti (nursery) where they attend until 6 years old is nothing like school, they're not learning to read or write, or how to add up, or getting homework, or having reading books to do at home, they're just playing, and learning social skills, and absorbing some knowledge in the process.

Would only work in the UK if they actually made childcare affordable though, which will probably never happen.

User5827372728 · 22/09/2021 20:42

@Natsku

That’s all they do in reception in my sons school.
Maybe some songs to learn phonics

Natsku · 23/09/2021 05:04

But after reception there's year 1 and year 2, which is a lot different. If it was just reception until 7 years old then there would be a comparison but its not.

HarrisMcCoo · 23/09/2021 06:04

@Natsku

But after reception there's year 1 and year 2, which is a lot different. If it was just reception until 7 years old then there would be a comparison but its not.

I am incredibly envious of the Finnish system. Scotland wants to head in this direction but a bit to go yet unfortunately...

Natsku · 23/09/2021 07:45

It would require a very big change as the system is not just the starting age, but the affordable childcare before it so parents can work, the short hours with frequent breaks so children can learn more effectively, the free lunches for everyone to ensure every child has at least once healthy balanced meal (so no packed lunch allowed - a lot of parents would not like that) and the trust that the children can manage home alone because school hours would be much much shorter than the working day (DD is 10 and on 3 days a week she still only does 4 hours - 6 hours on the other 2 days). Curriculum would need to be reduced in order to fit everything in, something else the public would probably complain about.

Might want to change the English language to make it easier to learn too... Lot less time spent teaching and correcting spelling!

MarshaBradyo · 23/09/2021 07:47

Scotland wants to head in this direction but a bit to go yet unfortunately...

I hope we don’t here. I prefer it to be as it is

MarshaBradyo · 23/09/2021 07:48

Although it wouldn’t impact me if it did as dc would be older by then so that’s something.

toomuchlaundry · 23/09/2021 08:39

@Natsku did your DD not start wanting to know what letters/words were before 7. DS was fascinated by letters and numbers from an early age (before school age) so I am sure would have been frustrated if he couldn’t read before he was 7.

Natsku · 23/09/2021 10:25

[quote toomuchlaundry]@Natsku did your DD not start wanting to know what letters/words were before 7. DS was fascinated by letters and numbers from an early age (before school age) so I am sure would have been frustrated if he couldn’t read before he was 7.[/quote]
Not really, she'd ask occasionally and I'd tell her but she wasn't fussed about reading until she started preschool and was sat next to one of the children who could read, then she got jealous and wanted to read too (which prompted us to start using Reading Eggs at home which was how she learnt to read in English) but didn't mind the slow start in preschool, and it went really quick once they actually started teaching in 1st grade.

DS (3) is the opposite and much more interested in reading so I'll see if he gets frustrated or not (though I'm teaching him in English now, to get it out of the way before school starts as that'll be easier, but Finnish reading will wait for school)

marmaladehound · 23/09/2021 12:38

@Natsku

But after reception there's year 1 and year 2, which is a lot different. If it was just reception until 7 years old then there would be a comparison but its not.

Yes, I agree it's yr 1 and 2 that's the problem. If the EY curriculum lasted longer for me it would be better.

You're right about lack of affordable childcare, so ultimately the state cushions the bill with earlier schooling.

I am not sure where it stems from that we push kids so much at such a young age. The UK is steeped historically with academic snobbery so I wonder if it's this part of our culture that dictates primary education.

Magicalwoodlands · 23/09/2021 13:10

I’m not massively convinced that children would be overjoyed with romping through the woods with their parents until the age of about seven, tbh.

Coffeepants · 23/09/2021 13:19

No one is suggesting that. Personally I’d just like to be able to do more stuff with them like I did in the last 5 years, quick ice cream or hot chocolate dates, going to museums, the playground, having picnics, taking the tube, etc. we still do all these things but it now has to be condensed into a Saturday/Sunday. There’s not much room to just pop out for a little outing with them during the week.

toomuchlaundry · 23/09/2021 13:22

What about the school holidays?

Many people do those things after school, can’t you?

Parker231 · 23/09/2021 13:22

If the school age was delayed it would mean longer at nursery (getting bored) rather than outings during the week as parents would be at work regardless.

MarshaBradyo · 23/09/2021 13:28

@toomuchlaundry

What about the school holidays?

Many people do those things after school, can’t you?

Exactly. 3.30 isn’t exactly too late to do stuff.

Coffeepants · 23/09/2021 13:55

We’re supposed to traipse to a museum after school? So what about homework, reading, after school activities, dinner, showers, getting them to bed at a decent time so they’re not tired the next morning?

School holidays don’t always line up with when you are able to have time off work, everywhere tends to be packed and if we are able to have time off work I guess we would aim for actual holidays where feasible (expecting these to be very overpriced)!

Coffeepants · 23/09/2021 13:56

I’ve never relied on nursery for childcare so this wouldn’t apply to me. My partner and I have flipped out work hours so one of us is always available for the kids

Original poster

sandcastles1 · 23/09/2021 13:57

@Coffeepants

That's exactly how I feel Coffeepants. It's just so sad that DC now spends 30 hours a week in the same small building, playing in the same playground. Her world used to be so much bigger. I just want to be able to mix mainstream schooling with a bit more home time - and not have to be the person stepping outside what's considered the 'norm'. I'll take my daughter out after school on some adventures once she's settled in a bit more - at the moment she's just too tired when she gets back - we'll have 3.30 - 5.00 (factoring in you have to be back for tea, bath, bed - all done in a relaxed manner for a 4 year old) - doesn't give long to travel to museum, look round it, enyjoy it, travel back - so realistically toomuchlaundry that ain't going to happen - it'll be small trips to the park - great, yes - but more limited than what she's used to.

Yes we have weekends and holidays - but the average school year on a quick google is 39 weeks - so they spend over 50% of the year at school. Surely a little less would be good. We're talking two half days or one less school day - surely society/ work could adapt to that to make it manageable for all - but what I'm hearing on here is that even if that were to happen people don't want it, and I can't understand that.

I'm sick of people saying I'm talking from a place of privilege - I work full time and mine is the sole income supporting my DC and has been for 4 years. I'm lucky in I can be flexible with hours, but that hasn't happened by chance - I've ensured that could happen and at 5am doing something I really don't enjoy, doesn't feel full of luxury and prvilege - but I preferred that to not seeing DC.

I'm not wanting to see women's careers decline - the contrary - I want it to be considered a valuable and desirable thing to be available to spend some more time with your children and for society/ work to get on board with that.

I'm dumbfounded that posters seem to think what we have is the best it can be and don't want to explore the benefits a change might bring.

OP posts:

Coffeepants · 23/09/2021 13:57

Also, a life where you live for the school holidays so you can get snippets of your children sounds so dire to me. Speaking to other parents, many are lucky to get even a few hours with their children in the evenings by the tome you factor in clubs.

MarshaBradyo · 23/09/2021 13:58

@Coffeepants

Blimey don’t you do anything after school?

Park meet friends? And yes we’ve done the museum here lots of dc do it’s a big meeting area for children to play.

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