Why do we send children to school so young

[sandcastles1]

Just that really - I'm feeling really disgruntled with our school system and why we make children go into full time education from the age of 4. My dc just started and is enjoying some of it and hating lots of it. She loved the first week when it was half days. For the past four years she has been either with me or her dad - we would take her out into the woods every day. Now she's cooped up in a small room/playground for the whole time. I could have home schooled her I know but didn't think that was the best thing socially. I can see the benefits of them going but 5 days a week 9-330 just seems harsh. Why couldn't it be three days. I know up until 5 we can take them out but just wondering how others feel as I'm missing my daughter a lot, she doesn't want to be there most of the time and I really now see the virtues of other countries that don't start full time until 7. Yes it means we can work, but why is that the norm? People that don't want to spend more time with their kids could find other care the rest of the time.

This is exactly my point. Why should the school going age be based on parents being able to progress their careers?

It isn't.

In fact, schools tend to assume someone is at he. They aren't geared up for two working parents at all.
However, there is nothing wrong with wanting a career.
If you reducer the amount of school hours or start later it will be women's careers that are most impacted.

Mine are happy in school but no way would I leave them there for 11 hours a day at age 4.

Who is doing that??

They are the part of society that we are expecting to raise to contribute meaningfully at some point. Not the sole part of society that matters but certainly what we do in the early years impacts the rest of their lives.

This just keeps hammering home my point that they are made to slot around our lives. It’s not necessarily what’s best for them. It’s what’s somewhat convenient with wraparound care. We can just about make it work. While driving ourselves to exhaustion and seeing our children for 3-4 hours a day. All so we can earn enough to mortgage ourselves to the hilt, be trapped in a a cycle that we can’t break and have a week off in Tenerife surrounded by other miserable people from our homes country. Sorry, the system is broken in my eyes.

They have it good compared to others? Really? Gosh, you must be mother of the year.

And yes, I am considering homeschooling and alternatives.

@SkinnyMirror

This is exactly my point. Why should the school going age be based on parents being able to progress their careers?

It isn't.

In fact, schools tend to assume someone is at he. They aren't geared up for two working parents at all.
However, there is nothing wrong with wanting a career.
If you reducer the amount of school hours or start later it will be women's careers that are most impacted.

Mine are happy in school but no way would I leave them there for 11 hours a day at age 4.

Who is doing that??

Wrap around care starts at 7:30 here. Ends at 6pm. That’s 10.5 hours?

Also, yes it’s women’s careers blah blah blah. But these are supposedly those same women’s children!

@Coffeepants

They are the part of society that we are expecting to raise to contribute meaningfully at some point. Not the sole part of society that matters but certainly what we do in the early years impacts the rest of their lives.

This just keeps hammering home my point that they are made to slot around our lives. It’s not necessarily what’s best for them. It’s what’s somewhat convenient with wraparound care. We can just about make it work. While driving ourselves to exhaustion and seeing our children for 3-4 hours a day. All so we can earn enough to mortgage ourselves to the hilt, be trapped in a a cycle that we can’t break and have a week off in Tenerife surrounded by other miserable people from our homes country. Sorry, the system is broken in my eyes.

They have it good compared to others? Really? Gosh, you must be mother of the year.

And yes, I am considering homeschooling and alternatives.

I don’t have this situation but you do sound fed up

Alternatives sound good in your case

My dc want to learn as they do and I don’t want it to change, they are happy and I can’t see that their friends are unhappy

Mine were ready to go to school very young and it was a huge positive.
I have more doubts about the school system being ideal when they get older.

Also, yes it’s women’s careers blah blah blah. But these are supposedly those same women’s children!

Women's careers Blah blah- fucking hell. No wonder we're doomed when this what other women think.

And your point is? If you're a women you shouldn't care about your career? Women who work don't care about their kids?

As for these long hours you keep quoting. Yes, those are the available hours but most parents use them flexibly rather than use every minute.

This just keeps hammering home my point that they are made to slot around our lives. It’s not necessarily what’s best for them.

Yes, that's exactly the point I'm finding so irritating. Of course they have to slot around our lives. It's just so incredibly precious to expect otherwise.

It’s what’s somewhat convenient with wraparound care. We can just about make it work. While driving ourselves to exhaustion and seeing our children for 3-4 hours a day. All so we can earn enough to mortgage ourselves to the hilt, be trapped in a a cycle that we can’t break and have a week off in Tenerife surrounded by other miserable people from our homes country. Sorry, the system is broken in my eyes.

I don't disagree with you there - the system is shit for most. Working 5 days a week just to survive is a crappy way we are all resigned to living. It would be great if it wasn't like that, but whilst it is, kids need to go to school when they do or adults wouldn't be able to get by, and that includes providing for said kids when they get home from school.

They have it good compared to others? Really? Gosh, you must be mother of the year.

Not sure what the need for that insult was given that you've just detailed how much worse reality is for adults in your above paragraph. Yes, most kids have it good compared to others. A bit of learning/play that they may or may not struggle with in a supportive environment from 9-3, followed by more playing and adults providing for them, is much easier than what everyone else has to deal with. For those that really can't cope, there are other options.

This isn’t my situation, it’s what I witness through interactions with friends, other parents, etc. who said your Dc can’t learn for fewer hours or through more play? Do they have to be sitting at a desk at age 6 to learn?

@SkinnyMirror

Also, yes it’s women’s careers blah blah blah. But these are supposedly those same women’s children!

Women's careers Blah blah- fucking hell. No wonder we're doomed when this what other women think.

And your point is? If you're a women you shouldn't care about your career? Women who work don't care about their kids?

As for these long hours you keep quoting. Yes, those are the available hours but most parents use them flexibly rather than use every minute.

I share your annoyance at this.

Plus people use after school as it’s usually more accessible and lose cost than alternatives.

Make it even harder to get the care you need isn’t going to help women or children on a societal level.

And that’s before you get to the fact that many children like learning from the age they do

@SkinnyMirror

Also, yes it’s women’s careers blah blah blah. But these are supposedly those same women’s children!

Women's careers Blah blah- fucking hell. No wonder we're doomed when this what other women think.

And your point is? If you're a women you shouldn't care about your career? Women who work don't care about their kids?

As for these long hours you keep quoting. Yes, those are the available hours but most parents use them flexibly rather than use every minute.

I actually have a high pressured career, have chosen to take on less and be there for my kids while they are little. Yes, I’m not likely to progress. May even look for something with less hours and this is my choice. But I think progression is not just a promotion, more money, etc. it’s a good life balance, earning enough and being content, having leisure time. I work in a male denominated field as a woman of colour, no one is opening any doors for me and I’ve had to work hard to achieve any progression but I’m okay with being here while my kids are little.

@Coffeepants

This isn’t my situation, it’s what I witness through interactions with friends, other parents, etc. who said your Dc can’t learn for fewer hours or through more play? Do they have to be sitting at a desk at age 6 to learn?

They are happy. And really enjoy school, play time and lessons.

If yours aren’t for whatever reason do homeschool.

This isn’t my situation, it’s what I witness through interactions with friends, other parents, etc.

So you disapprove and want to remove options for women. No thanks

@aSofaNearYou

This just keeps hammering home my point that they are made to slot around our lives. It’s not necessarily what’s best for them.

Yes, that's exactly the point I'm finding so irritating. Of course they have to slot around our lives. It's just so incredibly precious to expect otherwise.

It’s what’s somewhat convenient with wraparound care. We can just about make it work. While driving ourselves to exhaustion and seeing our children for 3-4 hours a day. All so we can earn enough to mortgage ourselves to the hilt, be trapped in a a cycle that we can’t break and have a week off in Tenerife surrounded by other miserable people from our homes country. Sorry, the system is broken in my eyes.

I don't disagree with you there - the system is shit for most. Working 5 days a week just to survive is a crappy way we are all resigned to living. It would be great if it wasn't like that, but whilst it is, kids need to go to school when they do or adults wouldn't be able to get by, and that includes providing for said kids when they get home from school.

They have it good compared to others? Really? Gosh, you must be mother of the year.

Not sure what the need for that insult was given that you've just detailed how much worse reality is for adults in your above paragraph. Yes, most kids have it good compared to others. A bit of learning/play that they may or may not struggle with in a supportive environment from 9-3, followed by more playing and adults providing for them, is much easier than what everyone else has to deal with. For those that really can't cope, there are other options.

Why is it precious to want to give your kids the best in whatever way possible? Of course that means making sacrifices.

Apologies, I reread my message and it was insulting. I guess I just struggle to understand the perspective as I do feel yes, they may not have the worst lot but really we could do so much more for them.

Where did I say this? I’m a working mum. I am just observing what the norm is and saying there should be an alternative

I actually have a high pressured career, have chosen to take on less and be there for my kids while they are little. Yes, I’m not likely to progress. May even look for something with less hours and this is my choice. But I think progression is not just a promotion, more money, etc. it’s a good life balance, earning enough and being content, having leisure time. I work in a male denominated field as a woman of colour, no one is opening any doors for me and I’ve had to work hard to achieve any progression but I’m okay with being here while my kids are little.

Those are your choices and you are fortunate to be able to make them.
Just don't judge other women for making different choices

How much “playtime” do they get A day?

@Coffeepants

Where did I say this? I’m a working mum. I am just observing what the norm is and saying there should be an alternative

There is as you said you are looking into alternatives

Do something else with more playtime if it suits you

@Coffeepants

Where did I say this? I’m a working mum. I am just observing what the norm is and saying there should be an alternative

There are alternatives. You do what works for you and maybe stop judging other women for doing it differently.

Why is it precious to want to give your kids the best in whatever way possible? Of course that means making sacrifices

It's precious to completely not get the idea of kids needing to fit in with the rest of society in a way that doesn't leave everyone else destitute whilst trying to give them the absolute ideal. I think it's natural for kids to have have to compromise a bit on what they would ideally like to be doing or might benefit the very most from. That's certainly life when you become an adult. Society is a balancing act of often conflicting, equally important needs, and all we can do is aim for a best fit. Life cannot be 100% perfect for one group to the detriment of all others. That is what purely focusing on what is best for the kids would do to people.

I think you have to be careful of comparing other countries' school starting ages unless you also understand their pre-school system- for example in China, kids start school at 6 years but that is preceded by two years of pretty hardcore, formal "sit down and face the front" kindergarten. Children entering P1 would have basic literacy and numeracy already way beyond reception level in UK. Arguably, Chinese kids actually start school as we would think of it when they're three, even though it's normally not full days.

Similarly, in Scandinavian countries, while school starts later, the majority of children are in some sort of all day daycare from a pretty early age.

I’ve actually said multiple times it’s not the parents that I am criticizing it’s the system.

I have not suggested people have to be destitute. Simply questioning why the system is so rigid that we feel four year olds must learn how to read and be in school for 6 hours a day. Their brains are not even fully developed yet. I get that the system is not prefect and this is what we have made work but shouldn’t we try to improve it or just settle for it because it’s not that bad?

And all the other countries in the world?

@Coffeepants

I’ve actually said multiple times it’s not the parents that I am criticizing it’s the system.

You very much sounded like you were blaming parents ( or more specifically, blaming women for daring to want career progression ) .

How do you suggest we improve the system in a way that doesn't widen the disadvantage gap or have a detrimental effect on women's careers?