National Offer Day!

[Mokaloli]

Only a few days left until we hear the outcome/offer for primary admissions (to reception). Anyone else finding the wait tricky?!

@CornishTiger

It amazes me that some councils deliver the results at 5pm on a Friday when no staff available to talk things through.

That's actually why they do it. To give families time to cool down, have a think, and be prepared with sensible questions if they still have them come Monday morning.

A lot of schools handle report cards in primary school the same way for the same reason; they send them home on Friday afternoon at the end of the day and then everyone flees essentially.

We got our first choice ... phew

I haven’t heard yet wtf

Offers are made 16th April, which isn't usually a Friday.

@eddiemairswife

Offers are made 16th April, which isn't usually a Friday.

Though it's always a working day, so next year it will be Monday 18th, as the 16th is Saturday.

Many places (including London/Surrey) still won't release until 5pm though.

First place here too. Woo hoo!

We got our first choice, phew! Congratulations to everyone else who did too :)

This may be a silly question but I'm new to this. When we done our application we equally loved 2 schools so they were our first 2 choices out of 6. We got our 2nd which we both actually prefer to our first. Our county states that we automatically go on the waiting list for our first choice. If they offer a place does this mean our 2nd choice place (which we have accepted) gets taken off us? Thanks

Brussels, no you don’t have to accept any offer that you get from the waiting list, you can choose to stick with your allocated school

@Brusselsprouts21

This may be a silly question but I'm new to this. When we done our application we equally loved 2 schools so they were our first 2 choices out of 6. We got our 2nd which we both actually prefer to our first. Our county states that we automatically go on the waiting list for our first choice. If they offer a place does this mean our 2nd choice place (which we have accepted) gets taken off us? Thanks

Usually no, they will offer you the higher placed school if a place arises from the waiting list, and allow you to accept it or stick with the offered school. However, this does vary from LA to LA and I believe there are a couple of parts of the country who will automatically move your child from school 2 to school 1 if a place becomes available. If you are really sure you want to stick with school 2 I would contact the LA and ask to be removed from school 1's waiting list.

@BananaDaiquiri thank you. I can't find any information on our county website. We are in Warwickshire so we will get the number and give them a call on Monday.

We didn't get any of our 3 choices instead we've been offered a school 5 miles away that's over subscribed in all other years.

I would have to drive past 3 other primary's to get there. 😱

I am not happy

@EmmaJR1

We didn't get any of our 3 choices instead we've been offered a school 5 miles away that's over subscribed in all other years.

I would have to drive past 3 other primary's to get there. 😱

I am not happy

Assuming you didn’t put unreasonable choices, this is the kind of sad situation that makes me think admissions need an overhaul

Nope, 3 closest schools bar 1 that only has 41 students and is rumoured to be closing. All within 2 miles and all undersubscribed as of March this year.

The one we have been allocated is 5 miles away and oversubscribed.

The system definitely needs looking at!

@EmmaJR1 Check that you think you have been considered under the right category. Is it enough of a shock that you think a mistake may have been made? E.g. wrong address? Did you apply in time?

@EduCated

How do you mean category?

We applied well within the time limits and I'm assuming the address was correct because I entered it correctly. (I double checked when I submitted it).

There is no CLA or EHCP aspect to consider, no staff priority. So it's just distance which is why I'm so perplexed.

Can you ask for a more in-depth explanation as to why you haven't been allocated?

I'm appealing and I'm on the wait list for the preferred school but from what I've heard bar some kind of error being proven appeals aren't often successful.

The email/letter should say why you didn’t get a place, so which category you were considered under and the last distance offered. If the last distance offered is further than you were, it might indicate a mistake. Or if you were expecting to be considered under a faith category and it doesn’t look like you have been.

@Brusselsprouts21

This may be a silly question but I'm new to this. When we done our application we equally loved 2 schools so they were our first 2 choices out of 6. We got our 2nd which we both actually prefer to our first. Our county states that we automatically go on the waiting list for our first choice. If they offer a place does this mean our 2nd choice place (which we have accepted) gets taken off us? Thanks

@Brusselsprouts21 please be careful. Whilst it’s true that most LA’s will let you choose if a higher preference waitlist place becomes available. NOT ALL DO!

Some LA’s will automatically move you to the higher preference school without asking if you’re happy with the 2nd place allocated. If you happen to be in an LA that works that way, get yourself taken off the waitlist for number 1 to be safe.

@EduCated

From what I can tell the criteria was:

Looked after children
Sibling connection
Ehcp
Faith
Staff priorities
Distance

We only meet the distance criteria.

The email I got is below and it really doesn't say anything except more applications received than places.

Because of where I live we aren't on the doorstep of any school our first choice is the closest at 1.5 miles. The school they have offered is 5 miles away.
There is a school much closer that is very under subscribed (but is RI at the moment hence why we didn't select it) but we weren't given that one.

It just doesn't make sense. I didn't expect to get upset about this but I really am. It's a good thing we have the weekend to think on it.

You will not have been given the RI school if you did not list it and if it was already full of those who had stuck it down on their form as their 'banker'. It sounds like it wasn't undersubscribed this year.

You will have been offered the nearest school with a vacancy after all preferences on all applications have been dealt with.

And as you've found out the hard way, it can sometimes mean you don't get the iffy but convenient school if more people are sticking it on their form as 'better that than a school miles away'

Do any all the schools you did list on your form have admission numbers (PAN) that are 30 or multiples of 30 (or occasionally a different number because they combine age groups somewhere in years R-2 and those groups must not exceed 30 either) ? If so then the appeal will be under Infant Class Size (ICS) rules, and yes, they are very difficult to win (essentially only if there has been an error and that error meant you were not offered a place that would have been yours if the system had been administered correctly) or if it was so perverse that it cannot be allowed homstand (threshold very high, think child protection issues or offering the only school which is not sufficiently accessible to a DC who uses a wheelchair)

Sorry, to be depressing, but you do need to be realistic here

I don't know if it is the same nationally but a few schools locally have found this year is a particularly high number of siblings. Could be a freak high year in other places too?

Complete opposite to when my oldest started in 2019 and virtually no siblings.

@meditrina

You will not have been given the RI school if you did not list it and if it was already full of those who had stuck it down on their form as their 'banker'. It sounds like it wasn't undersubscribed this year.

You will have been offered the nearest school with a vacancy after all preferences on all applications have been dealt with.

And as you've found out the hard way, it can sometimes mean you don't get the iffy but convenient school if more people are sticking it on their form as 'better that than a school miles away'

Do any all the schools you did list on your form have admission numbers (PAN) that are 30 or multiples of 30 (or occasionally a different number because they combine age groups somewhere in years R-2 and those groups must not exceed 30 either) ? If so then the appeal will be under Infant Class Size (ICS) rules, and yes, they are very difficult to win (essentially only if there has been an error and that error meant you were not offered a place that would have been yours if the system had been administered correctly) or if it was so perverse that it cannot be allowed homstand (threshold very high, think child protection issues or offering the only school which is not sufficiently accessible to a DC who uses a wheelchair)

Sorry, to be depressing, but you do need to be realistic here

Thanks Meditrina, I appreciate the info. I am being realistic but it's just so depressing I'm looking for any way possible to challenge it.

It just makes me look at all the houses going up around me and think what the heck are all these people going to do?

I'll have a look at the PAN numbers.
I know I'm being a bit snobby about the area of the school we have been allocated but also I'm trying to factor in my DD who is a year younger at a nursery close by home and essentially come September one of them is going to be late everyday. Because we live out in the sticks, the LA measuring as the crow flies is bloody unhelpful as there is a lot of difference between that and using the actual very congested roads.

We had an unusual year this year by the looks of it. Our nearest, non-catchment school we didn’t get into but we would have in the previous 6 years. We got allocated second choice in a further away school that is always oversubscribed & we’d have maybe not got into in previous years. But it’s undersubscribed this year. And another always undersubscribed school that we didn’t put was full as well this year..

Our catchment school was rated inadequate by ofsted in Jan 2020 (report issued the day after the Sept 2020 deadline 😱) & so this is the first round of applications that’s it’s had this rating.. I think it’s had a big knock on affect. It was good previously but I know locally, it’s put a lot of people off including us. Our neighbours pulled their kid as they were on interim head no.2 in 12 months & the school just isn’t very stable at the moment..

Do you have catchments in your area OP? I assume maybe just distance instead? Hopefully the council can explain why you ended up with one so far out.. sounds rubbish 😣

I am being realistic but it's just so depressing I'm looking for any way possible to challenge it

Another detail to remember is that if you appeal, you are not appealing against the currently offered school, but for the school you want.

Remember that the 'balance of prejudice' grounds (why the detriment to the school in going over numbers is less than the detriment to my DC in not going there) does not feature in ICS appeals

So you would be looking for a mistake made in the allocations of the preferred school/s.

And I guess all the new housing might be the reason why the historically undersubscribed school did not have any spaces left when the council offered you the nearest school with a vacancy

It's not a massively over subscribed year in all our areas. In our city there's a huge number of undersubscribed schools on a scale that I have never seen before. As if loads of people have moved etc