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Low aspiration parents at primary school: what to do?

126 replies

Marina2021 · 13/06/2020 21:07

We live outside London but within commutable distance (due to house prices). When we bought here, it seemed a pleasant enough area - nothing spectacular about it but not rough or down at heel (although it is close to a deprived area). We now have children, the eldest in year 1 and the younger one about to start school. Up to now I've been reasonably satisfied, the eldest is bright and is learning well and I'm on friendly terms with two or three of the other parents, who are pleasant and kind.
Lock down has shown us a different face of the school however. Firstly the school has done virtually nothing to support us. By this I mean sending out twinkl sheets on the first day of term (that are supposed to last for weeks and are basically all the same type of activity). These are not marked and students are not asked to send any work in. Last week for the first time they introduced ten minute sessions on zoom during which they ask the students what they've been doing in a very general way. We've had to create our own resources and buy books and subscribe to different online educational services to create a curriculum. But what is really alarming is that the other parents all seem to think this is fine. When I raised the point that the school should be doing more, and that the three other schools in the area are doing much more according to friends (offering daily lesson plans, marking the work, daily emails) I got shouted down and told children should be able to enjoy their childhoods by doing such things as baking, walking in the woods and wrestling in mud. The last really made me laugh - I'm not against any of those things but is this really a serious replacement for losing four months of school? Actually when you think about it these attitudes are quite scary. Some of the parents are actually boasting about how their children are doing no work at all, saying things like 'my child has not done a worksheet since the first week of lockdown and she's happy'. We want our children to learn and to take school seriously. But what impact is having people around them that don't take education seriously going to have as they get older? They are really going to be the odd ones out and I'm concerned that they will begin to think a careless attitude to learning is fine, when this really goes against our values. This has begun to worry me. Any advice anyone?

OP posts:
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steppemum · 18/06/2020 17:15

I am a 'high aspirational' parent if you like, I tutored my kids into grammar school.
I am also an ex teacher.

At year 1 and pre-school, in the current lockdown, I would have been concentrating on baking, making and playing.
This is because I think that under 7s learn best through practical activities and play. So make play constructive, imaginative and fun and you are learning.
I would have been doing 20 minutes reading per day, and then mental maths through the day with activities, eg baking, and lots of language and vocabulary learning.

steppemum · 18/06/2020 17:42

I know people really struggle to see how play is education, so I am going to give 2 concrete examples.

  1. Playing in the bath (paddling pool, water play table) with things that pour. Jug, tall thin container, short fat container. Empty washing up bottle with holes in the side.
they learn: how volume works. Really important basic math sand science idea. That the same water come a long way up the side of a tall thin container and only a short way up the side of a short fat conatiner. This is also about size and space and their relationship. The holes in a washing up bottle teach them about pressure as the bottom hole comes out faster than the top and so on. Do the same activity in dry sand and wet sand they learn about friction, solids behaving as liquids etc.
  1. Money. best maths activity is to set upo a shop. Price everything according to the age of your child. Can they add to 10? price everything under 10p. Add to 20? Increase your prices so some are 20p. Get a mixture of pennies, 5ps and 10ps.
Just using coins is the fundamental basis of counting and tens and units. If you child is confident that 10 pennies can be swapped for 1 x 10p, then they have the basic of exchange addition right there. Mental maths up to 10 or 20. Addition bonds, addition of simple numbers. Subtraction from 10 and from 20. Giving change, and having to calculate eg 1 x 5p and 2 x 1p to make 7p. Do this for 10 minutes every day, brilliant for numebr bonds, for addition, for subtraction, for base 10 exchange etc etc etc Not a worksheet in sight. Just a toy shop and bag of money.

ALL practical play is like this. Cars and slopes (friction), imaginative play (language building, vocabulary, social stories, dialogue, plot development, story structuring.) Running up and down the garden (large motor skills - which by the way need to be exercised to improve fine motor skills, fitness) kicking a ball (hand foot co-ordination, balance, fitness, team work) lego (fine motor skills- will help with their writing, imagination, planning, spatila awareness, structures and forces, and friction and engineering)

I could go on and on, but I get really annoyed with the idea that kids are 'just playing' and are therefore not getting and education.

myself2020 · 18/06/2020 17:54

Nobody said that playing s never educational.
But from what i’ve seen on facebook, an awful lot of “baking” consists of giving the kids tubes of icing, sprinkles and pre-made biscuits. fun, yes. educational value - very limited.
Nerf fights - a lot of fun. Again, not an awful lot of education.
Tv, xbox, ipad etc. all good in a varied environment, but no good on their own.
Learning via play is time intense for parents, not leaving kids to their own devices.

steppemum · 18/06/2020 18:00

Learning via play is time intense for parents, not leaving kids to their own devices.

It can be, and is especially hard if you only have one child, so no other child to talk to, but: lego, wooden train, dolls house, imaginative play, building a den, playing in a bowl of water/sand pit, box of cars, play house, play dough, sylvanians, Barbies, hama beads, drawing, - these are all good educational play which does teach them, and they are all things which do not require a parent to join in, or set up, or do anything except be there for health and safety (eg the water). None of these are time intense for a parent.

But the point of the OP is that she wants more to do with her kids, I am just saying that doing more does not have to be worksheets from school at this age.

myself2020 · 18/06/2020 18:24

Completely agree! Its just that so many people confuse learning by play (and even worse, unschooling) with doing nothing and leaving kids to their i own devices !

Shinebright72 · 18/06/2020 18:30

Hi OP. You don’t really know what goes on in other schools for a fact though. I’m sure most school teachers are not marking work from class Y1 and so they shouldn’t we as parents can check it over as the work is not as complex as some of the other year groups.

Everything seems heightened at the moment so don’t forgot that. I’ve also bought additional work books and reading books. As long as your doing your best that’s all that matters. Most schools will have pros and Cons. You get a different mix of people everywhere too.

This is unusual circumstances and I think we all trying to make the most.

Shinebright72 · 18/06/2020 18:33

@steppemum

I am a 'high aspirational' parent if you like, I tutored my kids into grammar school. I am also an ex teacher.

At year 1 and pre-school, in the current lockdown, I would have been concentrating on baking, making and playing.
This is because I think that under 7s learn best through practical activities and play. So make play constructive, imaginative and fun and you are learning.
I would have been doing 20 minutes reading per day, and then mental maths through the day with activities, eg baking, and lots of language and vocabulary learning.

Well if you are an ex teacher this is to be expected though its not rocket science.
steppemum · 18/06/2020 20:11

Well if you are an ex teacher this is to be expected though its not rocket science

What a joke, so hearing a child read for 20 minutes and then giving them good play is something only teachers can do?

Any reasonably articulate parent can do this. And should be doing it anyway, that is part of what parenting is, you know, talking with your child, teaching them life skills, playing games with them. Or , as I said above, leaving them to play with decent toys.

Shinebright72 · 18/06/2020 20:36

@steppemum

Well if you are an ex teacher this is to be expected though its not rocket science

What a joke, so hearing a child read for 20 minutes and then giving them good play is something only teachers can do?

Any reasonably articulate parent can do this. And should be doing it anyway, that is part of what parenting is, you know, talking with your child, teaching them life skills, playing games with them. Or , as I said above, leaving them to play with decent toys.

Did I say that?

You quoted you was an “high aspirational”

I stated it’s not rocket Science coming from a teaching background.

These are not normally circumstances though are? Parents working from home and having to teach their kids full time as well as running a household. Everybody’s circumstances differ. I work nights however I do my best and I have bought various additional things (as stated in my other post).

Clearly up your own arse.

And to OP
If you didn’t notice any issues with the school previously perhaps the school is under pressure and it’s due to the fact we are in a pandemic for Christ sake.

steppemum · 18/06/2020 20:44

You quoted you was an “high aspirational”

I was responding to the OP, you know, the whole point of the thread Hmm. She said that the other parents at her school were low aspirational because they were happy to just let their kids play, and the OP wanted more work from school.

I said, I am high aspirational, but I would be doing the same as those other 'low aspirational' parents - just letting the kids play, as that is fine at this age, and they don't need worksheets.

I did not suggest that the things I did were special, on the contrary, I was saying that simple very ordinary things are enough.

No-one needs to be sitting down with a 6 year old and doing hours of schooling, especially as so many are trying to wfh too.

Clearly up your own arse absolutely charming Hmm you misunderstood my post, and then call me names.

MrPickles73 · 18/06/2020 21:51

I understand where you are coming from OP. This is how our village school is. Apparently only some 40% of the kids at the school are engaged in the school's learning. Everyone else is apparently baking and doing play dough?
It is hard.. I'm working 40 hours a week and trying to teach my kids. But some people didn't do that well at school themselves and we are expecting them to teach their kids? And other people are working.
If your school is being crap you need to find the materials yourself. Don't let those around you pull you down. But yes it sounds like your school is crap.

Sleeprocks · 18/06/2020 22:45

There have been some interesting articles about the evidence around whether gaps in schooling are damaging or not e.g. what happenned to the majority of kids who didn't get schooled after Hurricane Katrina - they really did lose out and never caught up. I've seen less about what the best methods are for catching up.
There's also evidence that not being able to read the basics by 8 really causes problems with other subjects.

I agree some parents have a strange attitude in the UK compared to other countries on learning not being cool, although I wouldn't want to us to be like South Korea either. There is no doubt it will be very tough for the cohort that leave in the next 10 years to get good jobs. I worry for those in secondary where the subjects can't be learnt at home.

Apparently the 2 areas that pupils regress on are maths and spelling (English spelling is much harder than other languages as other posters have said), so maybe these are 2 to focus on. Doing this via play is great but many people need the inspiration of how to do that and can't with homeschooling.

In terms of suggestions for Year 1 - alongside the Oak Academy (I liked their videos on measuring which explain and then send the kids off round the house measuring things, same for mass) and whiterose above for maths try mangahigh (games based maths approach including competing with others), Khan Academy, supermovers for timestables and timestables.co.uk for learning eg the 2 x table is Year 1.

Reading - Reading Egg is quite fun. We also used some workbooks from The Works.

We are however trying to keep up with an African private school for when we go back there so circumstances different.

Not all Twinkl worksheets are dull - there are some where you can cut out money, some great word problems or make card games to learn words etc

For Edu TV kids love Maddie and Greg and how things are made, Wild and Weird and Horrible Histories. Maddie and Greg shadow puppets and fairground episodes gave my kids some great crafting ideas e.g. toilet roll ziplines across the room for the toys - adjusting angles etc.

Sleeprocks · 18/06/2020 22:46

I should clarify the secondary subjects I think are hard are ones like chemistry which need the resources

poloarpanda123 · 19/06/2020 22:03

I'm working from home and mum to 3 children (yr 5,3,1). Their father and I are separated and he lives and works about 100 miles away so I've had no help at all. First 6 weeks were pretty good. But for the past 2/3 their enthusiasm has really gone downhill. I started worrying and blaming myself. Comparing myself to what other parents were doing and feeling really guilty. But tbh, my kids have dealt with the lockdown well. They've not caused me any big problems with behaviour . We've had a couple of sibling squabbles but nothing dramatic. My yr 1 (boy) has become really polite and talkative. He never stops asking questions (actually driving me nuts!) and does his times tables ect on the trampoline. His teacher hasn't marked anything he's done (or even commented) and my yr 3 hasn't had anything marked (I have to mark it ) or commented on, so I can't really expect them to keep wanting to do this work when there is no recognition from school.
OTOH My yr 5's teacher has been the opposite and really encouraging.
Now, I'm just glad they are coping tbh. This is huge for them and even if they do a little bit of work, I'm hopeful that come the late years, they will catch up like so many other kids will have to do.

poloarpanda123 · 19/06/2020 22:11

I'm with sleeprocks on how a gap in schooling can have consequences.
I was 15 when my parents kindly decided to move me to France and put me in a French school when I could just about say 'Bonjour, Cava?' in French. I missed a whole chunk of schooling imo because of the language barrier. I actually resent them for this.
I managed to get to a good uni but I am dire in certain subjects. (Maths for example). My spelling is not great either!
This however ,is a different situation because we are all in this together. This is not an individual problem. All age groups will suffer here.

Having said this, I don't think a gap like this would affect a 5 year old in the same way as a teenager.

My0My · 20/06/2020 00:51

There were over 120 paediatricians who wrote to The Times who really do see problems for children with the schools not being open and working effectively.

There are many many parents who don’t know what their DC should be learning. They don’t have access to the curriculum. They feel they cannot teach phonics. They don’t know how to teach maths they are not confident about. Their DC will definitely not be up to speed. Other DC with SAH parents will be fine. They will be resourceful and have a good idea about teaching - as the teacher above described. Many have no ifs about any of this. Many DC will have done very little and I think assessment of progress against the curriculum targets when this happens in school will show poor/no progress for many DC. Just not the typical MN DC who will be even further ahead.

My0My · 20/06/2020 00:54

And always have high aspiration for DC, op. You champion your DC. Often no one else will. Keep expectations high and do your best. In the end, you cannot control anyone else.

Mumto2two · 20/06/2020 08:38

Our youngest missed a lot of primary school through illness..nearly half some years, and it’s certainly not held her back in any way. She is very bright, which I’m sure has helped of course, but it’s amazing how quickly they can catch up when they return.
Hospital provision is very basic, couple of fill in the gap sheets for when they’re feeling upto it, but otherwise she would get very little, and her school at the time were dreadful in accommodating any absence. I know not every child will have the right influence at home, but I don’t think the impact will be as huge as people fear.

BillywilliamV · 20/06/2020 08:44

DC doing GCSEs next year. I am concerned that all the extra resources and effort from September will go into bringing the below average pupils up towards good enough! Those that could have been exceptional are going to have to manage on their own.

My0My · 20/06/2020 13:29

I can assure you the lower 1/3 of any cohort will find it very difficult to catch up! The children who find learning more difficult do get further behind very quickly. The bright ones can catch up. The others simply won’t.

myself2020 · 20/06/2020 15:50

Thing is, kids forget as quickly as they learn. and the lowest 1/3 of year one will still have been very basic readers. add 6 months of doing no reading, and they are back at pre-reception level on entering year 2. and then the same for maths and writing. That is an awful lot to catch up with, especially if parents are not engaged.

My0My · 20/06/2020 16:45

Some DC forget quickly. Others don’t and will progress well. They are not all the same. In general teachers find the lower achieving DC need more repetition and reinforcement which, of course, hasn’t happened.

iamthankful · 21/06/2020 11:48

@Marina2021

Dear everyone,

thank you very very much to everyone who has taken the time to reply.

From reading through all your contributions, with many of you taking the time to provide considered and thoughtful responses, I felt obliged to reply. Firstly, to thank you all. And secondly, to chip in with a few observations.

I have never posted to any social media forum before, inviting people to comment on my particular position, and I have to say the experience is challenging - some replies are very direct, some are critical, and that can be quite chastening. But the directness of people's speech can also be refreshing. I am sure I wouldn't get such frankly expressed views face to face. To experience a dialogue stripped of the usual niceties that you find in conversation is challenging but also really interesting. A warning to anyone who hasn't tried it before: prepare to be a little shocked, a little intimidated, a little amused, and a little heartened! It's quite an experience.

Secondly, I found your responses fascinating. I can see that quite a number of assumptions were made from the fairly scant information I provided. I know that we all make assumptions, all the time, based on little information, to help us fill in the bigger picture and understand how to interpret what we're seeing and hearing. As with all our assumptions, some will be accurate and some not.

For example, I think the title of my post encouraged some to assume that I purposely tried to find a place to live that was not in a deprived area: to try and 'socially insulate' my children, as someone put it in a very colourful way. Actually, I bought this house ten years ago when I was returning from a period of working abroad, and was not even remotely thinking of children. I had only two criteria: I had to be able to commute to my job in central London and it had to have a fairly decent sized garden to accommodate my eight rescue dogs (that I had rescued while living abroad). And I had to find something quickly, because my huge kennelling costs were eating into my deposit. Those were my criteria. In fact I wouldn't have cared what sort of area the house was in because when you have eight dogs security is not a big concern! However, the area where I found the house that I needed happened to be in what looked like a completely average, run of the mill area, and for the first four years of living here I had very very little interaction with the local community. I didn't meet the neighbours as the house is set away. I didn't really know anyone apart from the dog sitter that I had to hire to look after the dogs while I was at work. If you're working long hours and have a long commute at each end of your workday it is surprising how little time you actually spend at home.

I would also like to comment on the classist assumptions that some drew from my post. Actually I commented on the area factually - it is an average area, close to a very deprived one (that's probably why I could actually afford to buy a house here at all). Some drew from this observation that I believe that deprived areas have parents who don't care about education. In fact, I come from an immigrant background myself and went to a school (when I could go - due to family issues I had an attendance record of about 30%) where there were a high number of children from families with very deprived backgrounds. Of course as a child I can't now know what the parents' attitudes to education were: but when I return to my home town I sometimes bump into my classmates, who now work in banks, as solicitors, and in other professions, and from what I recall most children did their work without complaining. I think the classist assumptions that some took from my post are more a reflection of our society: I sometimes think our class system is entrenched enough, decisive enough, to rival India's caste system. People judge you from the second you open your mouth (myself included, I can't escape the curse!) We're socialised into seeing everything though the lens of class and sadly that traps us into making assumptions that can be quite misleading.

In fact my personal experience, of living and working in countries where people are really, really poor, is that some of the most poor are some of the most motivated to enable their children to pursue formal education. That includes going hungry to be able to pay school fees and young kids walking for more than an hour each way to school to get to a classroom with 49 other children, having nothing to sit on but the floor once they get there.

One thing that has really stood out for me from this debate is how sharp the divide is around formal education in the UK, but perhaps elsewhere as well (those who come from other countries or who have relatives abroad might be able to share whether this is a common feature of other countries too). I can identify two camps. The first, kind of understands where I'm coming from - this camp worries about what this big gap in formal learning will mean for the future, and values things like providing children with a structure for their days, and trying to offer them formal opportunities to continue with their educational development (for want of a better way of expressing it). The other camp is quite hostile to formal education. There are some very negative perceptions of formal education here: I sense fear, loathing, rejection. It sort of culminates in the sentiments of the response of one person to my posting: 'I feel sorry for your children'. (I'm not trying to pick on that person or single them out: I am sure that that response came from the heart, a gut reaction to my post and was perfectly sincere). But it sort of encapsulates the view of formal education as punishment: an abuse, the stealing away of childhood happiness and fulfillment. This kind of attitude imagines that if a parent is interested in formal education then they can't be interested in their child having fun or learning through play: it's either one or the other and you can't be a parent that does both.

Obviously I don't share the views of the second camp. Firstly for me far from being a form of prison, education was my liberation. For me, education is freedom. Freedom to read, learn about new things, explore the world if not directly then through ideas. It's also meant freedom in the more prosaic sense of having a bit more control over what job I would end up in - since under our present system we are paid according to how many or few others can do our jobs and not by how valuable to society that job actually is. I struggle to identify with the views of this second camp because I don't associate such negativity with formal learning. And I am not even sure that this negativity is related to class. It seems to permeate every single part of society without direct regard to income level. I've met poor people who speak with sadness about their school experiences, people who are somewhere in the middle who accuse teachers of wanting to humiliate and berate them; people who are wealthy talking about how little they enjoyed school. Is this all related to bad personal experiences at school - a lasting sense of failure, unpleasant teachers? My teachers were mostly respectful and encouraging but maybe I was just lucky. For this sentiment to be so widespread in society it must be a symptom of something deeper. It's even become part of popular culture (Teacher! leave them kids alone!)

Finally, thank you, a heartfelt thank you to those who have made suggestions about finding resources, looking at other schools, or finding outside-of-school activities. I think all those elements are going to be part of my family's journey through the questions that the situation has raised for us. Just to be clear, I don't want more worksheets! I hate those Twinkl things and the website even more as I usually can't find what I am looking for and end up feeling overwhelmed when trying to make a selection. I really want some guidance on the topic choices and the techniques to use. But through lots of research, talking to parents whose kids are at nearby schools who are receiving these types of resources (and who are kind enough even to share with me log in details!!!) I think we will probably muddle through.

The unevenness in our schools provision should worry us all, I think. This can't stand us in good stead for the future. I think these developments have shown us the benefits of not dividing schools up into their own little atomised units but instead keeping a community of schools in an area that can pool resources, share ideas, and offer more even provision. Apparently last year there were around 106,000 medical vacancies in our NHS. I just cannot see how allowing some schools to slip so far behind others can in any way alleviate this situation in the future.

best wishes to all.

Totally agree with you OP! Completely!
AndNoneForGretchenWieners · 21/06/2020 12:10

I was a relatively high aspiration parent, DH had no qualifications at all other than his door supervisor and security qualifications, and I didn't go to uni, so I really wanted DS to achieve well. Neither me or DH were stupid or thick, just circumstances prevented us from further quals, although I've always been an inveterate lifelong learner and am currently doing a Masters.

Life had other ideas though and DH became terminally ill, and DS his full time carer during his A Level years. I wish we could have spent more time as a family making memories and doing the fun stuff instead of school, afterschool club, childminders and never seeing DS. This time is a strange gift to parents. I agree that life experience is more important when your constant and normality is lost. It doesn't really matter in the end, life happens and you can be as keen on education and progression as you like, but it takes one event like a cancer diagnosis and death to put things into perspective.

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