5 year old reading well but struggling with phonics

[backtothegrindstone]

Just been to parents evening and have been told that my year 1, 5 year old (late August born so very young for the year) has been moved into a booster group for kids struggling with phonics. I was shocked as his reading is decent and he's making really good progress. I've never noticed him having any issues and he sounds out words perfectly when we read at home. He's my 2nd child and if anything reads better than his older brother did at the same age- and his brother was always in the top set. I got the feeling that his teachers feel his reading is absolutely fine but that he's not reading the WAY they want him to read - he likes to read whole words rather than breaking them into bits. They want me to work with him on the phonics at home. So, should I be concerned and put a happy but rather tired little boy who's progressing well through extra work at home, or just ignore it all and assume that phonics just isn't his thing?

No more pointless than saying you can pronounce words correctly in a discussion about reading ...phonics isn't elocution and doesn't limit the reader to a single pronunciation because in English we have regional variations.

.thought MN had barred you!

I’m slightly surprised she hasn’t been banned again given the amount she’s been spamming the board with links over the last few weeks.

It’s preferable to a list, but no other ‘new’ poster would have got away with it.

No more pointless than saying you can pronounce words correctly in a discussion about reading ...phonics isn't elocution and doesn't limit the reader to a single pronunciation because in English we have regional variation.

You are well aware of the point the poster was making. Being pedantic about someone’s use of language doesn’t add anything of worth to the discussion.

I'm well aware the poster seems to equate the ability to pronounce words correctly with reading ...unfortunately unless the word is in your receptive vocabulary you are unlikely to know if you are pronouncing it correctly.

The school system only values particular abilities - sitting still, being quiet, reading and writing well spring to mind - as a consequence so many neurodiverse children are square pegs which we are trying to cram into round holes.
I think that might be right for primary but didn't really apply to DS as he was well behaved and got extra help because they recognised his intelligence, but his year 6 sats gave him a lot of confidence and secondary put him in top sets. His English teacher said to us that not to worry about him being in this set as his comprehension skills were so good.

Evilcat, I think being pedantic is sometimes needed to be done, when the poster is not making valid point. There are people who can figure out decoding without learning phonics. No one is denying that.But saying just because you did it fine without it, it doesn't mean it's worthless to everyone else.
My attitude as parent is, couldn't careless about people who don't get it. But as a teacher, many poster here cannot ignore it. It's a shame a lot of people can just say things without consequences, when people who claims to be a teacher here are taking so much risks.

It's quite a fascinating discussion. I was an early reader and read anything and everything I could get my hands on but although I could understand the meaning, I'd get the pronunciations wrong on some words I'd never heard anyone say. I read somtimes embarrassingly recently them differently in my head to how they were pronounced.

If I'm understanding right, phonics are linked to regional sounds and then you can put them together for the words?

This thread started with the query if the OP’s son really needs extra phonics when his reading is clearly coming on nicely. Many posters, me included, think not. But a few others, esp. Feenie and Norestformrz vehemently think that phonics is essential for everyone, regardless of how well their reading is coming on. But their replies often suggest that they don’t really believe it themselves.
1forsorrow: 2 of them didn't learn from phonics

Feenie: Then they worked out the phonics for themselves
(? So some children don't need to be taught phonics ??)
1forsorrow: I think what worked with grandson was learning to recognise a lot of common words, say between 50 and 100, and he could then read quite fluently with just getting stuck on the odd word
Feenie: That's what is called mixed methods - around 80% of children are fine learning to read like that, (? So there is no real need to teach all children the same way after all?)
It also sounds as if he got to a point, albeit eventually, where he could recognise some words to automaticity, which is the ultimate aim of any strategy. (? So once we can read the sounding-out stops anyway? In the end it all comes down to just recognising all common words by sight anyway ?? )

Mrz: learning to read consists of:
1First, recognising the letters and how they combine into written words
2Second, connecting them to the brain systems for coding of speech sounds and for meaning.

So some children don't need to be taught phonics ??)

True, but nowadays we tend not to expect all children to learn by osmosis, we explicitly teach all children the skills instead.

Feenie: That's what is called mixed methods - around 80% of children are fine learning to read like that, (? So there is no real need to teach all children the same way after all?)
20% failing to read is unacceptable, Masha. EVERY child should be taught successfully.

I don't understand your point relating to automaticity. Of course that is the aim. I would point out that knowing words ON sight is different to learning them BY sight of as sight words.

OR as sight words

FlaviaAlbiaWantsLangClegBack English spelling is not a totally reliable guide to pronunciation. It's not like other Latin-based writing systems.
Identical letters and strings of letters often have different pronunciations, e.g. the o in often and other. At least 69 of the total of 205 English spellings are like that. They make learning and teaching to read English much harder and slower than in all other European languages.

Gran, that is not true at all though. If the child is reading perfectly, then the teacher won't raise concern, especially at as young as 5 years old.
Why does the teacher think he needs booster sessions? If he can read all the words fine at school in front of the teacher, he will be less of the concern for them, there must be others who needs help. Why do you think teachers waste their limited time trying to help someone who won't need it?

Masha I think you need to look at the research but I've been advising you to do that for over a decade so it's highly unlikely you're going to read anything that disagrees with your book.

Feenie
Most children need a great deal of teaching and reading practice to become fluent readers of English (unlike most other European languages). Just giving them books and leaving them to it is definitely not enough. But for many children, loads of phonics is not the only way nor the best way.
What matters is that they learn. Some teach themselves by learning some books by heart. That's fine too.

Learning a book by heart isn't reading it's reciting ...charming in very young children but not reading!

Remind us again how many children you've taught to read, Masha?

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