5 year old reading well but struggling with phonics

[backtothegrindstone]

Just been to parents evening and have been told that my year 1, 5 year old (late August born so very young for the year) has been moved into a booster group for kids struggling with phonics. I was shocked as his reading is decent and he's making really good progress. I've never noticed him having any issues and he sounds out words perfectly when we read at home. He's my 2nd child and if anything reads better than his older brother did at the same age- and his brother was always in the top set. I got the feeling that his teachers feel his reading is absolutely fine but that he's not reading the WAY they want him to read - he likes to read whole words rather than breaking them into bits. They want me to work with him on the phonics at home. So, should I be concerned and put a happy but rather tired little boy who's progressing well through extra work at home, or just ignore it all and assume that phonics just isn't his thing?

Evilcat it's nothing new we have know for some time that poor readers (not just dyslexics) rely on inefficient strategies such as context to compensate but should we really be teaching children these compensatory strategies instead of the most effective method.
We also know that with the right instruction we can help children to "rewire their brains"
https://news.stanford.edu/2015/05/28/reading-brain-phonics-052815/

Thanks Evilcat -- that doesn't surprise me at all. The brain has a great deal of plasticity throughout childhood. I know a number of very intelligent people who have developed a wide range of self-taught coping mechanisms for dyslexia and other learning differences. In fact, I think in most previous generations, learning differences are pretty under diagnosed for this reason.

There can also be no doubt that teaching quality varies widely between schools. This isn't just true for phonics but pretty much all subjects. Math teaching, especially for girls, shows wide variations in quality and the progression girls make.

This is why accountability and testing matter.

Yeulisloveofmylife Thanks! My daughter is a bit like my husband so its something I've researched quite a bit. I also have primary school teachers in my family who I've discussed this with at length as its quite a hot topic in education.

@Feenie - your school sounds wonderful - there absolutely should be ongoing monitoring. Too many schools in my area seem to think ‘job done’ when the child passes the phonics screening test.

@LondonGirl83 - I truly believe that dyslexia can be a gift once you have navigated the school system and are out in the world of work, particularly if you have high cognitive ability. Fortunately, more and more companies are recognising the benefits of a neurodiverse workforce.

This is a great report on the benefits of dyslexia to the workplace

assets.ey.com/content/dam/ey-sites/ey-com/en_uk/topics/diversity/ey-the-value-of-dyslexia-dyslexic-capability-and-organisations-of-the-future.pdf

OP I find the idea that schools have an issue with a child not getting phonics vs being able to read very strange. It sort of feels counterintuitive.
My daughter is four and she’s good at phonics but reading full words is often times a struggle. By impulse she will break them down when she doesn’t need to. I think I’d rather have my kid reading the way yours does so I don’t pull my hair out 😂

Many children appear to be good readers because they've memorised some key words or even whole books but are unable to accurately tackle unfamiliar words when they meet them simply because they don't have a strategy that works. This isn't always obvious in the first few years but often becomes apparent in KS2/3 when they flounder. They often struggle with spelling too.

Evilcat
My as mentioned above both DH and Ds are dyslexic.
Dh was remedial back in 70s , did electrical engineer apprenticeship and has got on well wherever he has worked, but still has the scars from being unable to read and bullying that also went with it.

Ds started got decent a levels but dropped out of engineering degree. He started a temp job at company dh works for and they identified him as someone to watch and in a year was promoted twice and set up an apprenticeship for him with really good wages.DH has been approached by high up managers and told how impressed they are with DS.
Its wonderful that they are so forward thinking.

@bruffin- unfortunately, the school/exam system can leave real scars on dyslexic individual's self-esteem and self-confidence. It is sad that throughout school, the focus is on the difficulties these children face (which are very real). The school system only values particular abilities - sitting still, being quiet, reading and writing well spring to mind - as a consequence so many neurodiverse children are square pegs which we are trying to cram into round holes.

I am glad to hear that your DS has found his niche and a company that appreciates what he has to offer. Engineering seems to suit dyslexic strengths - strong visual problem solving and big picture thinking helps them find innovative solutions. People skills are often a strength too.

Hard to believe that this thread has gone from p. 5 just over a day ago to to p. 14 now!
Quite amazing how feenie and Norestformrz have been tenaciously defending their faith in the necessity of phonics for all, despite so many posters telling them that their dc's learned to read just fine with v little of it, or none at all.
This takes the biscuit:
Many children appear to be good readers because they've memorised some key words ...but are unable to accurately tackle unfamiliar words when they meet them simply because they don't have a strategy that works.
Kids who read well are good readers. Regardless of how they got there. As for unfamiliar words, even adults struggle with those. If kids have met nation, station, carnation, then come across ration for the first time, they are bound to struggle, and it's due to nothing else but the inconsistency of English spelling literacyproblems.blogspot.com/2019/11/english-spelling.html

They often struggle with spelling too.
Most kids struggle with spelling. Only a tiny minority don't.
That's entirely because over 4,000 common words contain logically unfathomable spelling differences, like 'ration, passion, fashion, machine, fascism' which all have to be learned one by one
englishspellingproblems.blogspot.co.uk/2014/10/4219-unpredictably-spelt-common-words.html

"The prevalence of APD in the population is estimated to be between 2-5%." I'm not sure what this has to do with dyslexia? Are you suggesting that they are the same?

Evilcat It's not the English school system that scars dyslexics, but the irregularities of English spelling.
Several researchers who compared how dyslexics fare in different languages (Paulesu, Frith, Wimmer) concluded that English dyslexics would have a much easier time if their spelling system was more regular. A few years back the New Scientists reported the case of an English boy living in Japan with his parents was dyslexic in English but not in Japanese. Italian dyslexics generally don't become aware of their dyslexia until they start to learn English.

Yes Masha ...good readers all struggle to read unfamiliar words you're still peddling dangerous nonsense I see ...I thought MN had barred you!

Gran, I truly feel priviledged to have posters like Feenie and mrz on this board. They get so much negative attention from people but they never give up. They have been here for me for whole of my dc's primary life. They are helpful with us parents, even the same question was asked 100 times before.
If I ask them specific questions, they will always give me an answer I can work with.
It's an amazing dedication as a teacher, they have children to look after at their school, but also gives us strangers same attentions.
I believe what they say. I have known them for long time, and also nothing they said was wrong.
It's parent's choice to believe who they chose to believe, but they have never disappointed me, for over more than 5 years.

Most kids struggle with spelling. Only a tiny minority don't

What absolute bollocks!

Thanks, yeul

Yeulisloveofmylife I am really pleased that you have found Feenie's and Mrz's advice helpful. 'Horses for courses' as they say.

The prevalence of APD in the population is estimated to be between 2-5%." I'm not sure what this has to do with dyslexia? Are you suggesting that they are the same?*

I am not sure what your point is? My point was that some children who will have difficulty learning to read using phonics - children with APD will struggle with phonics.

APD and dyslexia often co-occur - some people think they are separate conditions, others that they are linked. APD is a medical diagnosis made by specialist audiologists and is in its early days of recognition.

This is a simple article which gives one viewpoint on the similarities and differences.

www.auditorycenter.com/what-is-auditory-processing-disorder/apd-dyslexia-or-both/

They may have a greater difficulty but they can learn to read through phonics.

The communication trust provide excellent advice for children with CAPD and APD

Thanks Yeul

I am ver y familiar with The Communication Trust. To highlight one point from the article above

“Approaches to reading other than the phonics approach should
be incorporated into teaching, as a child with CAPD or APD is likely to always struggle with phonics. Whole word approaches, comprehension monitoring, spelling patterns and colour coding of sounds, for example, will give a child with CAPD or APD a range of approaches to use when learning to read.”

Gran, I am old enough to know when you are here under different name. And yes, it's great that I can trust someone who posts under the same name for long time, without changing their name.

Never got the hang of phonics - at school or helping my DD with them. I am an avid reader and educated to masters level. I can pronounce new words just fine.

We’re dealing with human beings here and it’s a case of one size does not fit all. Phonics maybe a great way to teach some, maybe even most children to read, but its not the answer for every child. I’m the same with mnemonics - can’t learn ‘em. By the time everyone else has learnt them I’ve learned the list of words, poem or whatever anyway.

" I can pronounce new words just fine. " are you confusing phonics with elocution!

" I can pronounce new words just fine. " are you confusing phonics with elocution!*

@Norestformrz Did you mean to be so rude? What a pointless and unnecessary comment