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Original poster

5 year old reading well but struggling with phonics

167 replies

backtothegrindstone · 26/02/2020 20:22

Just been to parents evening and have been told that my year 1, 5 year old (late August born so very young for the year) has been moved into a booster group for kids struggling with phonics. I was shocked as his reading is decent and he's making really good progress. I've never noticed him having any issues and he sounds out words perfectly when we read at home. He's my 2nd child and if anything reads better than his older brother did at the same age- and his brother was always in the top set. I got the feeling that his teachers feel his reading is absolutely fine but that he's not reading the WAY they want him to read - he likes to read whole words rather than breaking them into bits. They want me to work with him on the phonics at home. So, should I be concerned and put a happy but rather tired little boy who's progressing well through extra work at home, or just ignore it all and assume that phonics just isn't his thing?

OP posts:
CondorDays · 29/02/2020 16:29

Does anyone know what method was used to teach children to read in the early 1970's ? All I can remember about it was reading the Janet and John books.

midgebabe · 29/02/2020 16:38

If the child can read at a certain level, then learning phonics at that level can seem pointless as well as being irritating because phonics don't always work.

Speaking as a child who ended up in remedial English, because I was refusing to read the nonsense they were trying to get me to read in the way to fit with their rules.

Feenie · 29/02/2020 16:46

What words do you think phonics doesn't work for?

Phonics is essential for continuing to decode unknown words and for spelling - why stop learning how to do either at a 'certain level'? Confused

SofiaAmes · 29/02/2020 17:04

My DD struggled with phonics and never mastered it but learned to read quite early and was reading young adult novels (including unfortunately the Twilight series) by the time she was seven. She's a terrible speller.
She was tested as being highly gifted at 7 and as being severely dyslexic at 9. She is now 17, skipped 2 grades, has been taking Community College classes since she was 14 and graduated high school at 16 (2 years younger than normal). (We are in the USA, but spent time with DS in the English schools and found the approaches to reading to be quite similar to here. )
There were certain things that DD struggled with in her community college classes like quizzes that included gibberish symbols in the questions in order to keep the kids from cutting and pasting into Google. DD needed extra time to decipher the words from the gibberish symbols. She struggled similarly in her Bat Mitzvah studies when she had to read words that had no vowels.
She needs extra time to read big thick text books. She doesn't struggle with big unfamiliar words but still can't spell even three letter words.
All of this is to say that it's possible to be a successful reader and an advanced student even if phonics is a disaster for you. We know enough about the brain to understand that not everybody learns the same.
If the OP's DS is not struggling and is progressing and reading books well above his age group then why should she torture him with stuff that's boring and that he doesn't need. It will only teach him to hate school. This is what happened to my twice exceptional DS who left high school early and never wants to go to university even though he is ridiculously smart. (He was building computers at 9 but didn't learn to tie his shoelaces the conventional way until he was 16.)

bruffin · 29/02/2020 17:08

DD1 is dyslexic but a very able reader since we ditched phonics.

DH is dyslexic but didnt learn to read until he was 10 afinally taken to remedial phonics class back in the day of Look and Say

DS 24 also dyslexic was taught jolly phonics from nursery and read ok until 7 when his reading really took off. His secondary Senco said he reads well because he was taught phonics from the beginning.

happycamper11 · 29/02/2020 17:11

@bruffin amazing that individuals learn differently isn't it?!

1forsorrow · 29/02/2020 17:27

Exactly as I suspected - shit teaching So she influenced their reading 2 years before she started working with them in year 2. That is truly amazing.

1forsorrow · 29/02/2020 17:30

CondorDays I was reading with Janet and John in the 1950s. Well in one school, I actually went to 3 schools in what is now called KS1. The teacher who seemed to get the best results gave us a threepenny bit every time we went up a level. I tell you for poor kids in the inner city that was big money, just over 1p in new money. Must have cost her, 48 kids in a class then and TAs hadn't been invented.

Feenie · 29/02/2020 17:44

Your dgs's school were happy to palm two of the children most in need to a crappy TA. They were well-regarded because 'most' children learnt to read. Sounds like shitty teaching to me.

Norestformrz · 29/02/2020 18:34

Interesting 1forsorrow how do they tackle the new technical vocabulary they frequently meet in secondary school? They obviously can't have memorised words before meeting them for the first time or do they have to relearn every word or do they rely on someone telling them what the words are?

1forsorrow · 29/02/2020 18:48

Feenie I said it was the 1950s, I think the teacher in question was in her 50s so she'd be about 120 now. Don't think it's her.

1forsorrow · 29/02/2020 18:52

Interesting 1forsorrow how do they tackle the new technical vocabulary they frequently meet in secondary school? They obviously can't have memorised words before meeting them for the first time or do they have to relearn every word or do they rely on someone telling them what the words are?

Are you struggling with your reading? I'll just repeat what I said before, hope you manage to read it this time.

I think what worked with grandson was learning to recognise alot of common words, say between 50 and 100, and he could then read quite fluently with just getting stuck on the odd word so he suddenly felt like he was succeeding whereas with phonics he always felt a failure. Then he started decoding the odd word so he got to the same place just by a different route.

Hope that helps.

Feenie · 29/02/2020 18:53

Of course it's not her! He's a male Physics teacher, for a start. I was just highlighting how that would go down in modern day teaching.

The answer being interior get you disciplined!

Feenie · 29/02/2020 18:54

it would

Thanks, autocorrect

1forsorrow · 29/02/2020 18:55

It really is like a cult, if it doesn't work it is the child's fault, they have problems, or the teacher is shit and probably the school as well.

If, as has been stated on here, phonics doesn't work for 5% of children why are people so reluctant to believe that? Doesn't fit the cult teaching? I'm happy to accept phonics works for many, it worked for my son but I suppose I am open minded person.

I'll leave you to it. There's none so blind as will not see. Such a true saying.

Norestformrz · 29/02/2020 18:56

Should have gone to specsavers 1forsorrow

Feenie · 29/02/2020 18:57

But, as I said before, if he was recognising common words, then he'd learnt them to automatocity - that's the ultimate aim of any reading teaching. It doesn't necessarily mean that he learnt them as wholes.

Feenie · 29/02/2020 18:58

It never ceases to amaze me how hostile people can be when hearing about schools where every child learns to read. Weird.

Norestformrz · 29/02/2020 19:09

No I'm not struggling 1forsorrow but it appears you are or perhaps you're avoiding my question
For example how does your child tackle words like cytoplasm, ribosome, vacuole, plasmid ...common science vocabulary. How would they tackle
Long axon to transmit electrical impulses over distances. To connect to other cells there are dendrites and neurotransmitters produces with energy supplied by mitochondria. Acrosome contains enzyme to break into egg.

Nat6999 · 29/02/2020 19:18

Ds could read before he started school, he didn't learn by phonics, but by recognising words. He was fluently reading books for age 7+ when he started in Y1. The teacher insisted he start at the beginning of Oxford reading tree scheme, he was bored stiff & then refused to read any more, we proved he could read more complicated books by taking him & one of his books from home to parent's evening, he read half the book to her without a mistake, she still wouldn't accept it & dumped him in the remedial reading group, turning something he loved doing in to a battle. In the end I just used to fill in his home reading record without him reading the books & let him read what he wanted at home. They got heard reading at school so infrequently that we got away with it & he was absent from school when the phonics testing was done. He was reading full Harry Potter books age 6 & by age 10 was reading books on subjects that being ASD interested him like the cold war & Hiroshima. He has always been a proficient speller & had a very wide vocabulary with all words used in their proper context from being 18 months old. His favourite programme age 30 months was Time Team & he proudly told me age 30 months " that lady is a geophysisist" One size does not fit all, phonics may work for some children but for others it doesn't.

Pentium85 · 29/02/2020 19:21

@Feenie

Phonics doesn’t work for the ‘tricky’ words, lots of which are words we use in daily life

drspouse · 29/02/2020 19:25

Can you give some examples Pentium?

12help34please56 · 29/02/2020 19:26

Regardless of the debates about the teaching of phonics, he's 5! If they want to do booster lessons at school then sure go ahead but if he's progressing well then I wouldn't bother with the extra work at home!

Pentium85 · 29/02/2020 19:29

@drspouse

Asked, their, people.

Just google phonics ‘tricky’ words. It’s an actual set list of words that don’t fit the phonics way as you have to teach them as ‘tricky’ words, I haven’t randomly used the word tricky, it’s what they’re called

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