Teacher concerns?

[Hoppinggreen]

Without any previous concerns about the school in general or the teacher would you be worried if you heard your sons experienced, mature teacher say the following (within the same 10 minutes) to her Y6 class?
They speak Spanish in Brazil
Hitler wanted to reunite Germany because it was divided by the Berlin Wall

However, I was talking about animals in Africa, and started waffling on about tigers. My colleague decided she’d better correct me... I had absolutely no idea that tigers and lions don’t co-exist.

And there we are. I knew that, you didn’t. That doesn’t make you incompetent. I don’t know anything at all about - for example - machines, tech, computing, coding. Doesn’t make me some sort of idiot.

I’m going to leave it, it’s not great but I imagine most dc will do WW2 again at High school and hopefully will be taught the correct facts then
To be honest I wasn’t sure if it was me (I do have an interest/knowledge due to my A level/degree subject plus another family connection that has made me do some research. I wasn’t sure if the Ww2 aftermath leading to the Berlin Wall etc was common knowledge or not.
I think my main worry wasn’t the specifics but that in a small space of time the teacher said 2 completely incorrect things, as a one off it’s really no big deal but if that’s generally the case then it’s a worry,
But I suppose I’ve no way of knowing and as DS seems happy and is doing fine I have to assume it was the former.

When DS did WW2 in Y6 it was more about what happened at home eg evacuees, shelters, young men going off to fight. They read Goodnight Mr Tom

Yes and that’s the way my son was taught too (by this teacher)
As I’ve said before, this was NOT during a lesson on WW2 or anything else, it was a show and tell scenario

ineedaholidaynow

Exactly. The political detail is a step up from that, in my opinion.

"But again, the history of the Berlin Wall is not core to the WW2 topic. If the teacher was teaching the Cold War, certainly, but not WW2." If a teacher had researched for a WWII topic they'd not link the Berlin Wall with Hitler. The Wall wasn't built until 16 years after his death

If a teacher had researched for a WWII topic they'd not link the Berlin Wall with Hitler. The Wall wasn't built until 16 years after his death

That’s not really how research works. If you research Hitler at KS2/3 level they probably wouldn’t mention the wall at all, but if you have previously held the misconception that, because he wanted reunification (and you know the wall divided Germany down the middle), the research won’t clear that up. It just won’t mention it.

jollyroger it is, and probably one for Secondary
Thats what I meant when I said the teacher didn’t need to say anything about it at all. None of the dc had asked about that specifically, she added it on to something I said, which WAS a reply to a child’s question

"Hitler didn’t actually want to reunify Germany"

Hitler wanted all German-speaking nations in Europe to be a part of Germany. To this end, he had designs on re-uniting Germany with his native homeland, Austria. Under the terms of the Treaty of Versailles, however, Germany and Austria were forbidden to be unified.

It certainly is how you Research when planning a unit of work jollyroger. If the teacher had just taught a WWII unit I would expect them to be well informed.

Norestformrz

No, it isn’t. You don’t begin basic research by ironing out misconceptions. You read the available information and sort it into the mental schema already constructed on the topic. You are expecting far too much here.

Thats what I meant when I said the teacher didn’t need to say anything about it at all. None of the dc had asked about that specifically, she added it on to something I said, which WAS a reply to a child’s question

So? She thought she was extending their knowledge, which is her JOB.

I get the impression thr teacher got confused over the brazil issue as Spanish the spoken in a majority of Latin american countries which brazil is a part of, as most primary teachers have to teach a huge curriculum rather then their specific subjects. So I can under stand the Brazil issue to be a honest mistake if I'm honest, and isnt factually incorrect as they do speak Spanish in brazil, but Portuguese is the primary language.

The Hitler and great wall issue tho is much more puzzling as it is factually incorrect and I'm struggling to understand how that could be misconstrued from any knowledge of ww2

It’s not great and it would worry me. A basic level of intelligence & general knowledge isn’t too much to expect.

I’ve been in a classroom where the teacher was talking about ocean reefs and she spelt reef as “wreath” on the board.

@thejollyroger So? She thought she was extending their knowledge, which is her JOB.

But by teaching hugely incorrect and factually impossible information (about the wall not the brazil thing as that negligable) she is not doing her job, or at least not doing it well.

A quick refresher on german history/ww would show that the wall had nothing to do with the Third Reich, and anyone with a modicum of knowledge on researching (as I would expect a teacher to have) would be able to use common sense to acknowledge that it's not mentioned in any literature and therefore is irrelevant to the topic at hand. If anyone is still unsure after seeing no mention then common sense would suggest a quick google of the topic of Hitler and wall and would quite easily find that there is no relationship present.

The Hitler and great wall issue tho is much more puzzling as it is factually incorrect and I'm struggling to understand how that could be misconstrued from any knowledge of ww2

It’s really not that hard to understand. You know there was a war and a Wall, and you are doing some basic research and it says Germany was divided after Versailles, and you conflate the two divisions. A mistake any non-specialist might make.

LittleDragonGirl

I believe, 100%, that you are significantly under-estimating the time pressures of being a primary school teacher, and what is “a quick refresher” when you have multiple subjects and topics to teach.

The teacher wasn’t teaching the subject at this point, it was in a show and tell situation NOT related to any topic the class is currently doing
So the issue is that in an informal show and tell situation a teacher made an error / had a misconception in one part of their general knowledge.

From the way the thread opened it was strongly implied these errors were in their curriculum coverage, which i would imagine people are quick to pile in criticising their lesson planning and research etc.

Yes it's a mistake and a reasonably silly one at that, but I wouldn't say anything. Everyone has tripped up on general knowledge at some point.

A basic level of intelligence & general knowledge isn’t too much to expect.

Then they need to test for it in the recruitment process. At the moment it isn’t part of the standards.

Jollyroger if you've planned and taught a history unit on WWII you wouldn't think that the Berlin Wall has any connection to the Treaty of Versailles.
Germany was divided after the Potsdam Conference following the end of WWII.

thejollyroger
It's not just that. Who decides which general knowledge counts as a prerequisite?
World capital cities? Chronological history of British monarchs? European political movements of the 20th century? Name the composers of common pieces of classical music? Which books should someone have been expected to read to count as being intelligent? Ability to recall natural disasters in the last 10 years?

Then consider cultural bias. Would good general knowledge only be demonstrating knowledge of British history? How far back? If general knowledge means awareness of recent natural disasters, which ones?

Statements about "general knowledge isn't too much to expect" usually translate to "people should know things that I know and if someone doesn't know facts that I think they should then they lack intelligence".

Primary teachers are generalists. I’m guessing History isn’t her specialism. She might be fantastic with art, music or computing. She may not have studied history for years.
It’s not ideal but it isn’t something I would be worried about. It’s a mistake... they happen... even to teachers.

Jollyroger if you've planned and taught a history unit on WWII you wouldn't think that the Berlin Wall has any connection to the Treaty of Versailles.
Germany was divided after the Potsdam Conference following the end of WWII.

But if you haven’t planned the unit yourself and - like many teachers - you are relying on the scanty minutes you actually get to research a topic, you might conflate the Versailles Treaty, which took back Alsace-Lorraine into French control and removed other territories from German control, with Potsdam. It’s an error, but hardly an incomprehensible one.

LolaSmiles

Exactly. Everyone considers what they know to be “general knowledge”. But by insisting one person should hold all of it (everything general known by everyone, everywhere), we approach the territory of the absurd.

I don't know any primary teachers who don't do their own planning or who don't plan alongside a year group partner jollyroger