Teacher concerns?

[Hoppinggreen]

Without any previous concerns about the school in general or the teacher would you be worried if you heard your sons experienced, mature teacher say the following (within the same 10 minutes) to her Y6 class?
They speak Spanish in Brazil
Hitler wanted to reunite Germany because it was divided by the Berlin Wall

But lesson prep and research is the very least that a teacher should be doing.

But again, the history of the Berlin Wall is not core to the WW2 topic. If the teacher was teaching the Cold War, certainly, but not WW2.

The German thing is a gross mistake. To make that mistake would involve a deep confusion of a couple of decades of very recent and very well known history.

Yep, the 1960s to 1980s. Not the 1940s.

But again, the history of the Berlin Wall is not core to the WW2 topic. If the teacher was teaching the Cold War, certainly, but not WW2.

But Hitler certainly is WW2!

No, I wouldn’t be worried. Of course not! Is your child happy and making good progress overall?

But Hitler certainly is WW2

Yes, but even when a teacher does research, there might be areas they don’t look into. If they’re teaching Y4 WW2, I for one am not expecting them to read Ian Kershaw and Richard Evans. They’re not specialists; some errors are inevitable.

I think perhaps she was panicking a bit to be honest because I was there. The class did WW2 last term and so they’ve moved on .
Without wishing to go into specifics as it’s very unusual and could definitely out me DS asked to take a family heirloom related to WW2 in to show and tell. Due to its value I went too (agreed with the teacher), I had planned to wait outside the class but she asked me to come in in case there were any questions. There were and , some of them were around why Hitler had become leader of Germany and as (for reasons again I dont want to go into) it’s a subject I do know quite a but about. I did answer as briefly and age appropriately as possible and then the teacher jumped in with “and don’t forget that Hitler wanted to reunify Germany etc etc etc”.
I’m not planning on taking any action, I’ve had a good relationship with the school for over 10 years and we are generally happy with it. The standard of teaching could probably be better in some cases, there are a few things that have raised my eyebrows over the years but the dc have both been happy there and hit their targets. DS leaves in July anyway
I know quite a few of the teachers well, some socially (don’t worry, I would never discuss this with any) and I know what a hard job it can be. I have nothing but admiration for teachers in general, it can be a thankless task and they are only human like the rest of us.
I have told DS that it wasn’t accurate and asked him not to discuss it with his friends

I don’t think you could take “action”. It’s a factual error, really not a big deal.

Hitler did want to re-unify Germany hence the reason the war started. Did she mention the Berlin Wall or just re-unification? I do get confused which South American countries speak Spanish or Portuguese. Portugal is not so prevalent as Spain these days.

*The German thing is a gross mistake. To make that mistake would involve a deep confusion of a couple of decades of very recent and very well known history.

Yep, the 1960s to 1980s. Not the 1940s.*

Not really thejollyroger if you want to be pedantic the teacher mentioned Hitler so she'd need to know the basics of the 1930s and 1940s and the Berlin wall so the basics of the 1960s to 1980s. Feel better now?

ArnoldBee

True, but the teacher clearly did confuse the Hitler’s desire for the reunification of the 19th century Prussian state into a modern-day German state with the reunification of East and West Germany. It’s definitely factually wrong. But I think it’s understandable.

Not really thejollyroger if you want to be pedantic the teacher mentioned Hitler so she'd need to know the basics of the 1930s and 1940s and the Berlin wall so the basics of the 1960s to 1980s. Feel better now?

No, it is an unrealistic expectation that a teacher teaching WW2 to KS2 should have a grasp of the fundamentals of German history from the 1930s to the 80s. Don’t be silly.

Hitler didn’t actually want to reunify Germany
He wanted to reclaim some land that could be argued belonged to Germany . It wasn’t a country until 1871, it was a group of states.
In any case, it doesn’t really matter - the Berlin Wall was certainly NOT a factor in the outbreak of WW2
I appreciate that Primary teachers have to have a huge breadth of knowledge but to me it’s a very fundamental error.
Anyway, as I said I won’t be saying anything and embarrassing the poor woman.

I appreciate that Primary teachers have to have a huge breadth of knowledge but to me it’s a very fundamental error.

It is a fundamental error in understanding. It isn’t unprofessional (as suggested above) or evidence that she is stupid. As you say, primary teachers are expected to teach such a huge range of topics that gaps are going to happen, like it or not. I am qualified to teach primary as a secondary school teacher and would be confident about my ability to teach KS2 in English, History and RE. I could get a lot of the requisite knowledge for Geography and Science, for example, but there would be gaps. It’s the nature of the job.

The Spanish thing is excusable, I think - she got something wrong in the moment while trying to explain something else. The Hitler and the Berlin Wall thing, however, is pretty egregious - you really shouldn’t be teaching a topic to kids if any age about which you have such poor knowledge. If it’s important enough to be on the school curriculum, it’s important enough to expect a teacher to have a decent basic grasp of the subject.

I could get a lot of the requisite knowledge for Geography and Science, for example, but there would be gaps.

Gaps, sure. But if, say, volcanoes are the subject, you could be forgiven for not knowing the precise average temperature of lava but not for saying that volcanoes regularly erupt in Leicester. I think the Berlin Wall comment is akin to the latter!

If it’s important enough to be on the school curriculum, it’s important enough to expect a teacher to have a decent basic grasp of the subject.

Which sounds reasonable enough, until you note that we don’t know what is on the curriculum, or how long they have had that curriculum. Is it really a reasonable standard to say that, if a school decides to teach something, a teacher should straight away have as good a grasp of the subject as people who - clearly from this thread - know a lot about it? I don’t think it is.

Is it really a reasonable standard to say that, if a school decides to teach something, a teacher should straight away have as good a grasp of the subject as people who - clearly from this thread - know a lot about it? I don’t think it is.

Not as good a grasp as an expert, no. But if you are teaching a subject, you need to have a good enough knowledge to be able to reflect the curriculum accurately. Otherwise it’s utterly farcical.

Not as good a grasp as an expert, no. But if you are teaching a subject, you need to have a good enough knowledge to be able to reflect the curriculum accurately. Otherwise it’s utterly farcical.

Then maybe it’s farcical. I am a realist. I would like all primary teachers, whatever their acumen and specialisms, to have as good a grasp of every topic as is required by the curriculum, but I know how long it takes to acquire a decent fundamental knowledge of even one historical period, let alone of everything required to teach Geography, Science, PE, Maths and English as well. So I know that some errors are inevitable, the more so as curriculum change lurches forward unchecked by any real, practical constraints on how quickly people can acquire knowledge and resources, and I won’t pretend the odd error is evidence of an incompetent teacher.

Just to be clear
The teacher wasn’t teaching the subject at this point, it was in a show and tell situation NOT related to any topic the class is currently doing . WW2 was last term.
So the teacher didn’t actually have to say anything, she just jumped in with it on the end of something I was saying in response to a child’s question, which was why it was a bit of a WTF moment for me.
My concern is what other things might she have said last term while this subject WAS being taught, or on other topics

So the teacher didn’t actually have to say anything, she just jumped in with it on the end of something I was saying in response to a child’s question, which was why it was a bit of a WTF moment for me.

The teacher doesn’t need your permission to speak in her own classroom. Why would you think “WTF” at all? How odd.

My concern is what other things might she have said last term while this subject WAS being taught, or on other topics

Well, you’ll never know, will you.

Obviously she doesn’t need my permission. I needed her permission/invitation to be there and I was very grateful to get it
I meant that she didn’t have to say what she did, it wasn’t in response to a question, she wasn’t put on the spot. I only thought “WTF?” At the inaccuracy, not the fact that she was speaking in her own classroom.

I meant that she didn’t have to say what she did, it wasn’t in response to a question, she wasn’t put on the spot. I only thought “WTF?” At the inaccuracy, not the fact that she was speaking in her own classroom.

Right, but the inaccuracy itself isn’t the end of the world, just a simple error by an overstretched teacher. Give her a break.

Could you send a note to say "I didn't want to say anything in front of the kids but I thought you'd want to know for next year as you have a WW2 topic ... "

The way she said it sounds like something she had actively taught in the topic. It's not great.

FWIW, I’m an infant teacher, and would never have made that mistake. I know my history .

However, I was talking about animals in Africa, and started waffling on about tigers. My colleague decided she’d better correct me... I had absolutely no idea that tigers and lions don’t co-exist.