Serious stuff. 5year old’s disruptive behaviour at school

[Bristolmum9]

He is one of the youngest in his year but that does not excuse his attention seeking behaviour. He now only attends mornings at school’s insistence but is still being very difficult. He is improving at home. We have referred him to a paediatrician and realise there maybe a vary of causal factors. We appreciate that he is a management problem for school.
What help should we expect from school? What can we reasonably ask for.

England?
As I understand it the school can't insist he only attends mornings, that would count as illegal exclusion.

What sort of thing is he doing? Were there any issues at nursery / pre-school? Could it be just that he is young in year and the setting is too formal for him? How much free play is there?

What is he like at home? Were there issues before he started school?

I don't know where you are in the country but he desperately needs to be referred to Ed psych and Behaviour Support Teacher. The latter was my job. We still have them in Wales, not sure about anywhere else.

Thank you for helpful responses. He was ok in reception, problems only got out of hand at beginning of year 1. An Osted comment last year when school went from Outstanding to Requires Improvement was that children were not being adequately prepared for the changes from reception to yr1. We have not mentioned this yet as don’t want t alienate school but feel there are issues at school as well as at home. We are seeking professional help to help home situation. We wonder if sons exclusion is more for schools convenience than to help him. We both work and having him home from 12.30 is really difficult for childcare. His behaviour at school is pretty bad, he does not seem to be angry just very naughty. Throwing chairs, pushing other kids being unmanageable.
We are floundering around not knowing what to do for the best and while appreciating the needs of children in his class we are not sure school is on our side. There seems to be little change in his behaviour at school despite strategies being put into play and his shortened day. It seems really important to know where we are going and I’m not sure school is on our side.

Well, if he was OK last year, it sounds as if he just isn't ready for the transition to y1.
Have they tried just letting him spend more time in yR?

@prh47bridge might have some advice. I'm pretty certain they can't just effectively exclude him by making him do half days.

Ed Psych referral as soon as possible. Have you talked to him about how he feels when he’s in class? This school may not be the right one for him, and if his teacher isn’t coping with him then it’s very unfair on him.

How are things at home with the rest of the family? Any family disruptions?

I sympathise OP. But there's a lot of blame heaped on the teacher and school here. If he's improving at home that suggests he's hard to manage on his own. The teacher is dealing with him and 29 others and @Herocomplex 'if the teacher isn't coping with him it's unfair on him'? Really?

He's throwing chairs. They are 5 years old.

I do agree that it needs to be referred ASAP now. I really hope it improves for you OP and I'm sorry if I've been harsh but I've tried to manage chair throwers in a full class before - I speak from experience!

Sorry @IHeartKingThistle, I’ve read back what I wrote and I didn’t convey what I meant, I apologise. No teacher can meet the needs of a child behaving in that way and maintain a good learning environment for the 29 others, it’s just not possible. I don’t think it’s a good situation for anyone, let alone the small boy who’s at the middle of it all.

As he’s statutory school age, as far as I’m aware, he should be in full time school and is, effectively being excluded. Except he hasn’t been.

I would contact the LA advice team about “exclusions” like this.

If he has SEN, the school have to put measures in place to try and help. They need to take advice. The school should have Ed psychs and behaviour specialists to consult. What is the SendCo doing? They should be working out a strategy to get him into school full time. Ask what the school is doing to facilitate this. I would expect them to have a TA in Y1.

The school could try and fast track a “statement” but you really need to hustle for this. They will need to show they have done everything to support him before this happens though.

This is not legal behaviour from the school as I understand it. It should be challenged and they must talk to you about how he will be managed.

School should assess to see if they can meet the needs of your DS. At present that have decided to put steps in place, one of which is a shortened timetable. This will be considered to be in your DS's best interests. It would after all not be in his best interests to insist he does full days when he can't cope.

Have you had meeting with SENDCO to discuss the plan and next steps? School will be supporting where they can, but with a TA and Class Teacher, that can sometimes not be enough support depending on the needs in the class. I've been in classes where the TA, who is there to support ALL the pupils, ends up being 1:1 with a child with behavioural issues and those with other difficulties (ASD, dyslexia, ADHD) get no support. It is a rock and a hard place.

So, meeting with SENDCO, discuss plan/next steps. It may be that there will be an EHCP at some point OP.

Just trying to get a better picture - is it a surprise to you that he is throwing chairs? I wouldn't call that 'naughty' behaviour, it's dangerous behaviour. I speak as a mother of a child who went to special school from the age of 4, but also as the mother of a (as in another) child who was regularly evacuated from a classroom because a child threw chairs.

Chair throwing would not be tolerated or 'dealt with' in a special school either. I guess the difference is that they have less children to deal with and have specialist behaviour management training to de-escalate before chairs get thrown.

Do you have a plan for how to move things forward?

I don't see how sending him home is helping. The school doesn't seem to have any idea how to handle this situation. It sounds like what they are doing is an illegal exclusion which is avoiding the problem rather than dealing with it. If they won't work with you to help your son it is time to look for a different school.

Having said that, I agree with Lougle that throwing chairs is more than just naughty. It is dangerous. He may need specialist help. You need a plan.

What makes you say he’s attention seeking? How did you get to that conclusion?

It’s very difficult but the school won’t be ‘on your side’ necessarily, they’ll be balancing your sons needs with the needs of everyone else in the class. It might be that because of the safeguarding risk (your sons dangerous behaviour) they come to decisions that you’re not happy with.
Your son of course needs help though so you can determine what is the root cause of his behaviour and he can be supported to feel settled and happy at school whilst the other children are kept safe.

It is not safeguarding. It’s the safety of the other children and of course the school is responsible for that. However this cannot continue but neither can what seems like an illegal exclusion. Therefore seek help immediately. You cannot access a special school yourself so start talking to the school about getting him assessed.

Also, schools that take DC with behaviour problems certainly are aware DC can throw chairs. Obviously they are specialists in behaviour management and this behaviour will stop when the triggers are removed or he is able to control his behaviour effectively. Poor behaviour can be to get noticed but it can be a big cry for help because he cannot control his behaviour in certain circumstances. So whatever you do, talk to your LA on Monday about the exclusion and talk to the SendCo about what they are doing, as a matter of urgency, about helping him settle or going to a different school. Do not accept any rubbish about a shortened timetable. It’s illegal to send a child home at lunch every day. He is entitled to full time education. However this school might not be the one he should go to.

Lastly, was there no inkling of this at nursery? Has it just startled in y1? Was he perfect in yr? If YR was good and the school isn’t great at transition to y1, could they work out a different setting for him in the afternoon? See the SendCo and discuss options but don’t agree to part time any longer.

No matter how extreme your child’s behaviour, he has a right to an education. Excluding him - which is what they have sneakily done, without formalising it - won’t make his behaviours change or get to the bottom of why he is behaving in this way.

You’re seeking expert advice outside of school. What are the school doing to help? Have they got an Ed Psych in from the local authority? Have they written anything for you to provide to the paediatrician about what they see as your son’s issues/needs?

The school, and moreover your local authority, should be looking at what they can do to support your son, too.

In my experience - both as a parent of a child who was very much like this and eventually diagnosed with autism and ADHD - and as a safeguarding professional working in education, is that if you allow the school/LA to reduce his hours longer term you are allowing them to let the problem roll on unresolved. Children with behavioural issues don’t magically improve through sitting at home for half the day. If the school can’t safely manage his behaviour, they should be going to the local authority and asking for more funding and/or an assessment of his needs.

I also wonder how the ‘attention seeking’ label has come in to this. Is this how you see your son’s behaviour or how the school are describing it?

A young child who is throwing chairs and having big meltdowns at school isn’t coping with something and needs the adults, including education professionals, to be taking action to find out what that ‘something’ is.

What a wonderful lot you are! It was so supportive reading all your messages this morning.
I will take time to consider the points made. We have a meeting with Head end of next week to consider way forward and I want to go in knowing what options we can ask for.
I fully accept that for his classroom teacher he must be a bit of a nightmare. She has a TA in the mornings but not the afternoon and I think he probably gets one to one with her in mornings. He is a bright little boy but hates his reading book that he takes home. I say he is attention seeking because the school is saying that, also that he is emotionally and socially immature. By the way he has also been swearing. He has older brothers. Things at home have not been brilliant and we are doing what we can to change this.
I will contact LA re his exclusion but wonder how good it would be for him let alone rest of class if he runs amok in afternoons. I’m surprised that even with rewards and time out in Head’s study when disruptive, these strategies have not made any significant different. The Head says no easy fix. I’m also surprised that he still wants to go to school.
We have asked about him repeating Reception year but Head talked against this, friendship groups etc. We have also thought of changing schools but the good schools are full although we could put his name on waiting lists as a back up plan. Resources are so scarce and take so long to access even when what doors to knock on.

You really want to know what they are doing in the classroom. Who are they getting advice from and who has seen his behaviour patterns and advised them regarding a classroom management strategy.

This is not a “safeguarding” issue. It’s a behaviour issue. The school must follow its behaviour policy and sanctions policy. The school need to be a lot more proactive regarding his behaviour. None of this will be covered by their Safeguarding Policy and those obligations so don’t get confused about the two.

Some schools and LAs will fast track help for DC like this and that’s what you need to ask for. Do they have a nurture group off site? What behaviour specialists can they ask to come into school? Can the EP see him as a matter of urgency? Do they have emergency places at special schools for behaviour management?

It’s a shame his language is not acceptable too. Don’t condone swearing by anyone in the family! He’s picked up this from his siblings and he needs to understand this is not acceptable. Why do they swear in front of him? Cut it out. He is being damaged by them and he needs to learn how to articulate his feelings rather than swearing or throwing things. Can you access family support services? Ask about these.

He will be on a reduced timetable - these ar perfectly acceptable for children who can manage a full day.

The schools only option to help your child is to log every incident as they need proof of his issues - they then get prioritized in the system for Ed Py assessments etc - he maybe referee to a behavioral school or smaller setting

He may be bright but he isn’t in a place to learn

I disagree with @GreenTulips

A reduced timetable is only acceptable as a strategy for a child who’s needs have been identified and where expert opinion advises this is as part of a strategy of support.

It isn’t acceptable in this case. It is effectively the school saying ‘we can’t cope’, but offering no real solutions.

I agree too. It’s not acceptable as no interventions have been tried and the OP hasn’t been part of the process. In this case it’s an exclusion and the procedures have not been followed.

Reduced timetables are legal, but they must have parental agreement. They are really only meant to be short-term with regular reviews, and there has to be some kind of plan of how to fully reintegrate. And school should request urgent advice from Ed Psych/behaviour support etc.

Generally they are expected to last Max of 6-8 weeks and I believe the LA would question any that go beyond that.

My 6 year old was on a reduced timetable due to disruptive behaviour. But make sure you get a copy of the paperwork sent to the LA as mine wrote it up as maternal anxiety

"Things at home have not been brilliant and we are doing what we can to change this."

So this could be why he acting out. ?
Kids are not just naughty there is usually a reason.
Behaviour is communication.
Get ed psych at school and home be honest about all issues that might be impacting and ask for strategies to implement.

Call contact for advice on school exclusion and what to do and local parent partnership

contact.org.uk/advice-and-support/education-learning/